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Marco

Class Guides [v2.0]

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Gim you outdid yourself.


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Sljm: I've used each of your formulae - and alternative formulae where I can think of them - across the entire damage range of each of the scenarios you've tested on your Wikia user page, and I can confirm that your model has proved correct on all 39 tests. I was worried in the first test that swapping the order of weap skill and stat application producing equally good results for the min, max and median values. But I found an exception on roll #2 of the Metal Hammer which remedied it.

Short of bringing in Estigo, Tweak, Tandi, DG, Swatch and Luabua, I imagine this is all the peer reviewing you'll need to start editing the Wikia :) good work! I can help you with the resistance formula when you come to it, and I'm curious to see how much a Swindling reflects, too ;)

Edited by Taste

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Sljm: I've used each of your formulae - and alternative formulae where I can think of them - across the entire damage range of each of the scenarios you've tested on your Wikia user page, and I can confirm that your model has proved correct on all 39 tests. I was worried in the first test that swapping the order of weap skill and stat application producing equally good results for the min, max and median values. But I found an exception on roll #2 of the Metal Hammer which remedied it.

Short of bringing in Estigo, Tweak, Tandi, DG, Swatch and Luabua, I imagine this is all the peer reviewing you'll need to start editing the Wikia :) good work! I can help you with the resistance formula when you come to it, and I'm curious to see how much a Swindling reflects, too ;)

The resist formula always used to be a reversal of the damage one, or at least that was my understanding. Something like:

Resist(Res){
Res = Base
Res = Res - SRes
Res = Res - Math.floor(Res * (PRes/100))
}

SRes: Static Resist
PRes: Percent Resist (max of 50)

Edited by DizzleGizzle

Diz - the precociously talented one. 'nuff said.


DG.

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Yes, I suspect that's the way of it, and I recall reading explicitly some time ago that static resists were subtracted before % resists, like you mentioned. Wasn't always the case, but I remember that being one among many 'Feca nerfs,' that they couldn't cut the net damage in half with Feca Shield, and then reduce 100+ off of that.

300/2 = 150 - 100 = 50

300 - 100 = 200/2 = 100.

I think it's understandable why it was considered a nerf.

I don't recall reading anything since that time, about whether the order was ever changed, but given how damage seems to come out, I would say it's still linear resists first, then % resistance.

What I'm more concerned about is the order in which + resist from equipment, shields, and reflects apply. Reflects come after shields, as per 1.26, but whether that's before or after linear resist from equips is something I just don't know. I would assume that equip linear resist is first, followed by shields, then reflect.

Of course, then I have to discern the how all these various reduction methods apply to reflected damage... This little project is quickly snowballing.

This is my prototype resist algorithm. I'll be testing it and a few alternatives soon, and I haven't completed the rebound damage part.

Res = Bonus( Base )
Res = Res - (Shld + LRes)
Res = Math.max( (Res - Refl), 0 )
Res = Math.floor( Res * (1 - (PRes / 100)) )
Refl = T.Resist( Refl )
Refl = A.Resist( Refl )

Base : Random value from attacker's base damage range.
Bonus : Attacker's damage bonuses.
Shld : Total value of relevant shield effects on the target.
Refl : Total value of reflect spell effects on the target.
LRes : Total value of relevant "+x [element] resistance" bonuses on the target.
T.Resist : Target's resistance.
A.Resist : Attacker's resistance.

I don't think Shield or LRes being done in a particular order matters, because the game always displays the max of your reduction with a shield and reflect, whether that exceeds the damage dealt. So if 2 damage is dealt, with 1 static resist, and the defender reduces 10, it will display him reducing damage by 10, even though the shield effect reduces damage by 1. Or, if the shield effect is first, then the shield effect reduces by 2, absorbing the whole damage, and the static resist goes unused. But since there's no data output for static resist, it doesn't matter. So these may as well be summed and subtracted simultaneously.

Reflect is the funny one though, it's all over the place. If the shield reduces damage below what the reflect would reduce, only the remaining damage is reflected. Furthermore, the damage dealt back is reduced by the reflector's resistances, then bounced back, and reduced again by the attacker's resists. Talk about convoluted. I'll have to test exactly which defensive abilities apply to the reflect process, though. Oh, and apparently reflecting steal damage causes you to gain hp equal to half the reflect damage the attacker actually takes, rounded down. So if, after resists, your attacker takes 6 reflected steal damage, you gain 3 hp.

Oh, and I'm moderately sorry for hijacking the thread...

Edited by Sljm

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My assumption was that Shield (from spells), Static Resist + Reflect all stacked (at least for purposes of calculating the reduction in damage to the target).

I have to say I have never really spend time looking too deeply how the reflects and back-damage are calculated having never playied a class where it mattered. You're right recalling that it was in fact the other way around before (%resist first). I like to think it is a buff to everyone else rather than a nerf to Feca. :P

While looking at reflects I'd be somewhat interested to fully understand if reflects for equipment deal damage back the same way the spells would.


Diz - the precociously talented one. 'nuff said.


DG.

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Yay, I got a mention!

Motivated me to finish off that 1.27 reduction part, I'll work on the spells and such later.


Forever Lv.199 Feca

Lv.19x Panda

Main author of the Feca guide in the japanese wiki~

Also the author of The Intelligence Feca guide in English

And now making tutorial videos!

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My assumption was that Shield (from spells), Static Resist + Reflect all stacked (at least for purposes of calculating the reduction in damage to the target).

I have to say I have never really spend time looking too deeply how the reflects and back-damage are calculated having never playied a class where it mattered. You're right recalling that it was in fact the other way around before (%resist first). I like to think it is a buff to everyone else rather than a nerf to Feca. :P

While looking at reflects I'd be somewhat interested to fully understand if reflects for equipment deal damage back the same way the spells would.

Well, I can tell you from experience that shields are applied before reflect damage, because in cases where I reduce damage with shields below what I can reflect, I reflect less, and deal less damage back. I've even reduced damage to 0 with shields, and had my reflect not deal damage back, when it should have.

For example, if I reduce, of a 50 damage attack, 45 damage with Mummification, I will reduce and deal back 5 with Counter, even if I'm supposed to reflect 30 and the enemy's resist is 0.

I will look into equipment reflect, but from what I remember back when I actually owned Prespic gear without the reflects maged off for Wisdom, it didn't reduce damage to the wearer, and wasn't increased by wisdom. As to whether it is reduced by resists, I don't recall.

Edited by Sljm

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Well, I can tell you from experience that shields are applied before reflect damage, because in cases where I reduce damage with shields below what I can reflect, I reflect less, and deal less damage back. I've even reduced damage to 0 with shields, and had my reflect not deal damage back, when it should have.

For example, if I reduce, of a 50 damage attack, 45 damage with Mummification, I will reduce and deal back 5 with Counter, even if I'm supposed to reflect 30 and the enemy's resist is 0.

I will look into equipment reflect, but from what I remember back when I actually owned Prespic gear without the reflects maged off for Wisdom, it didn't reduce damage to the wearer, and wasn't increased by wisdom. As to whether it is reduced by resists, I don't recall.

That's interesting to know but it certainly works as I expect with it still reducing the damage to the target as a static reduction.

I'll eagerly await your findings on the equip reflects. :P


Diz - the precociously talented one. 'nuff said.


DG.

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Awesome, I just love how this new thread has everything I need.

Why did the old one get deleted, there was nothing wrong with it o.O


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5,7 showin the love <3

props to Mary for settin it up ^^

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Awesome, I just love how this new thread has everything I need.

Why did the old one get deleted, there was nothing wrong with it o.O

Except out dated guides?


[solar] Boomyshoe [Muse of Lust]

[Zatoïshwan] Olol [Treasure Hunter of Lust]

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Except out dated guides?

Yeah they were out-dated but you can still get a general idea of how to play the character or the equips to get.

It's just annoying how this new one has none for my class because Im resetting to strength and I have no idea

on what equips to get.


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props to Mary for settin it up ^^

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Was the old one actually deleted?

If not it should at least have a link for historical purposes, and a disclaimer stating that it is out of date.


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I have no clue, All I know is that its not pinned anymore


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5,7 showin the love <3

props to Mary for settin it up ^^

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For a xelor guide JFAC made a agility wisdom guide http://www.wikia.com/dofus/Xelor/Agility/Wisdom

I know I don't really have room to talk, but is it done?


Zatoiswan

Fiver - 6x Intelligence ecaflip

Barioth - 3x chance cra

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I just wish there would be even one proper strenght or hybrid guide for srams.

It's tricky to have standard build because almost any can be justified. There are no wrong spells to level, just different people have different priorities.


Dont judge a book by its cover, the summary is on the back.

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That's interesting to know but it certainly works as I expect with it still reducing the damage to the target as a static reduction.

I'll eagerly await your findings on the equip reflects. ;)

Not to mention that, at least with spell reflects, if the target reflects steal-type damage, he gains hp equal to half the reflect damage dealt (rounded down), which gives him even more 'reduction.' Partly the reason I wanted to keep reflect separate.

I have the next two days off, so I've planned to clean up the damage page a little. I haven't had opportunity to set up a control environment to test reflects and resists yet, so I'll probably leave them out of the pages for now. If you happen to have some data I could use I'd be glad for the help.


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Sljm - 19x Strelor

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I just wish there would be even one proper strenght or hybrid guide for srams.

I am working on a general Sram guide... maybe i'll finish it soon.

Edited by Ledo

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Noob Iop on solar. Formerly Ledo (Level 199 Agility Sram) on Rosal.

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I think that Gormal should write all guides.

(With a bit of Hayk's wit)

*EDIT

Also, if anyone could provide a good Spam Osa guide they'd be a hero.

I just have no clue how to build a character without a main element to focus on.

Edited by ThisIsLegend

I actually suck at Dofus but I pretend that I don't. 

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like my sexy wings?

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I've finished my upgrade of http://www.wikia.com/dofus/Damage and ahead of schedule. Hope it's satisfactory.

Next project:

http://www.wikia.com/dofus/Reflect


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Sljm - 19x Strelor

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Dammit Sljm, you rock.

But Reflects aren't exactly rocket science ;)


Avaricia XelorInhutil EnuMutilate SramIracunda EniOrgullosa IopLujuria ElioEnvidioso PandaGulattony Eca

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Dammit Sljm, you rock.

But Reflects aren't exactly rocket science ;)

Maybe I'll say I'm mentally worn out. ;P


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Sljm - 19x Strelor

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sooo what we going to get some guides added? theres not even a cra or sram one and the only non str/int one is an agility sac, as if we need people knowing how to make those good..


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I'll have to write a guide for Cha Enu and Cha Xelor, though I think EIB and Sljm would do it better >.>


Avaricia XelorInhutil EnuMutilate SramIracunda EniOrgullosa IopLujuria ElioEnvidioso PandaGulattony Eca

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