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VcentG

How long does Dofus have left?

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After coming back to the game I see a few really nice changes, and a lot.... of not nice ones. Although some were in place before I left and I'd merely forgotten how horrendous they were. I almost want to make a video pointing out all of the glaring issues, but I don't think the ears are on or we would have never gotten this far down the rabbit hole. I do like the game, but the decline in players ( we all know what server merges mean ) is blatantly obvious (wiki is outdated on many things, even IV is just a shell of itself, past the top 4-5 posts, everything is from years ago), also they literally have the old version out again (it's not a good sign when people are playing the terrible graphic, high pitch squeal (yet somehow can't stop listening to) music with way less cool features, version of your game). Who is running this ship and how do we change captains?

 

For a basic example of things that seem to be good/bad choices:

 

Good:

-Animations - Spell animations look awesome. But this only turns into a double negative once my point is made in the bad.

-Class changes - I'm still a newb at all the new stuff, but a lot of new changes look REALLY cool. (osas shape shifting? wtf)

-QoL changes - New things like the haven bag, multi-launching clients, and tons of simple things like that add up.

-Pets/Mounts - All cool and different, useful.

-Dofus - Effects are nice and makes them worth even more to get.

-Idols - Upping the difficulty for more gain? That's what makes the combat even spicier.

-Ogrines - A few more things for sale with ogrines. For instance now you can get livinitems or parasymbics, etc (I think before you couldn't? Would only be whatever comes with p2p but now you can just flat out buy them). More micro-transactions and less p2p would be beneficial.

 

Bad:

-Questing - I like questing here and there. But let's be honest, the biggest draw of this game that differentiates it from others is that it is a TACTICS combat MMO. The game has literally become quest simulator. Run around for 20 minutes to 1 NPC, run back, fight monster, run around do more. Repeat. And don't even get me started on things like Almanax. And so many of the dofus have to be locked behind long drawn out quests now? Now don't get me wrong, quests are great, but I think the problem is they appealed to the minority by forcing questing, not the masses (and the masses pay the bills). Rather than forcing anything, they should have made split paths for everything. You want to spam a dungeon 200000 times for your first dofus drop? that's 1 way, or you could do this quest. Why can't we have both? Just equalize the difficulty levels.

-Recipes - The "new" item recipes are terrible. Requiring pebbles, irrelevant mob materials and other junk. Yes, I get what they were going for ("let's make everyone useful!") but again it forces a player to do too many things they don't want. If the draw of the game is the combat, and I clearly like PvM since I'm spamming dungeons. Why do I now have to go and find some way to make money (because pvm mats hardly sell except super rare ones) to buy pvp mats? To make equipment? Again the problem here isn't that the recipes contain the item, its that the player is forced to do something completely irrelevant to anything that makes sense. I'm making a hat.... out of his (PvM Monster) head... please explain why I need a random pebble from PvP?

-P2P - This one is not really a change, but rather a lack of change. When your game is dying, perhaps you should look into why, and not just keep charging head first into a wall. Most MMOs don't even bother being p2p anymore. It's a terrible strategy for most, and they usually end up dying (....odd). The price for p2p should really just be adjusted to make solo accounting more affordable (because solo accounting sucks unless you like running around and only doing quests, because trying to find a group (especially low level) is near impossible, but then again, the only solo account server has been merged with so many people that don't speak the same language.... so I guess its just exponentially going downhill). And also changed so that multi-accounting is actually more affordable for those that want to go that route (again, why force either it's a game with 200000 sets, different elements, different mounts, different pets, different dofus load outs, different idols and what? 15 classes? and yet they keep FORCING things).

-Economy - Another not change, but also should have been updated. The 100% player controlled economy kills the game when X player gets rich and decides to monopolize things, and player Y, keeps undercutting everyone so that the price drops to nearly nothing. Having a few minimum prices for things would have stabilized this and made it so that any player can always thrive, as long as he's doing SOMETHING. Gobball mats will always be worth SOMETHING, kollosokens will always be worth something. Unless you are literally zaap sitting you will be working towards profit. Note: by "SOMETHING" I mean a decent price for the item, not 1 kama, because yes, technically that IS something.

 

Fixes:

-Stop locking EVERYTHING behind quests. No I don't want to do quests to get turq dofuses! You know how amazing it was to spam that over and over and finally drop one? It was an amazing feeling. Those feelings don't exist anymore, now the "amazing feeling" people think they have now is relief. Similar to being tortured for days and finally its over. That's not the same, I'm sorry. This is not only one (if not only??? aside from wakfu) tactics MMOs out there, and yet... you know the one thing you don't really spend much time doing? FIGHTING IN TACTICS COMBAT. If you are a solo accounter, you may feel like you do. But that is mostly due to multiple people not being on the same wavelength and simply taking longer to complete fights. If you are a multi-accounter and you spend all your time doing tactics combat, you are selling ogrines or something for kamas, cause mob mats are worthless.

-Dual recipes, or change them. PvM stuff is PvM stuff, PvP stuff is PvP stuff. If you want sparkling pebbles and crap to be in recipes for gear.... do like other mmos and make pvp-specific gear. Don't merge the 2 and force it. Because player A, doesn't want to pvp. and player B doesn't want to pvm, and rather than let them shine at what they do and be rewarded for it, you want them to either mix how they spend their time (which is bad in a p2p game, i'm paying just to play, don't ruin the time I have to play with BS) or spend money buying the others mats (which would be fine except low-mid level, this sucks terribly, also PvM mats have been ruined by the achievements giving boss mats making them a joke... they're supposed to be the rarest part of the recipe!?).

-P2P - again, more micro, less up front cost. I have money, I would like to support the game... unfortunately unless I want to buy 100 years of p2p, there's nothing I can do to give them money. Shooting yourself in the foot with that, considering how big cosmetics are in the game. It's literally the easiest thing they could do for more money AND player interest.

 

Didn't mean to come off so ranty, but I was never good at condensing my thoughts to get my point across faster. Plus does it even matter? NO ONE'S TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE ANYWAY. But anyway, my point is... when running a game and you make changes, and see that its bringing less players, not more... why do you keep heading that direction? When I left this game it was flourishing (though never as much as it probably was originally) but things were definitely 10x more active than they are now. Are they tired of having the game and just want to run it into the ground? But then why make cool changes like the ones I said XD. I'm just lost as to what they want.

 

And this is the end... Where I have to end it with something spicy, to get the people going. So since i am... stuck in NA, how about: Make Dofus Great Again.

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I think you hit the nail on the head when you say about completing achievements and obtaining dofuses is no longer a great feeling but a sense of relief instead, that's what made Dofus so great was that if you worked hard you'd eventually be rewarded (either by a rare, expensive drop which was needed for nearly all end game gear, but only one of the material, OR by dropping a very expensive, rare dofus) They're somewhat bringing this feeling back for me by introducing the minowang as a droppable pet to all boss monsters but I REAALLLY DONT want to quest, I've played the game for 15 years and the only quest I've ever done is the otomai reset quests and that was because I HAD to.

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I agree with most of your points here. One other thing is that this game has been out so long that you got massive power creep for the equipment and annoying as shit pvm mechanics in an attempt to make new monsters "unique".

 

I'm not entirely sure if I agree with you about questing. The main customer for Ankama is the french player base. Questing adds to the 'lore' and 'role playing' and it's possible the french are big fans of that. Using quests as a mechanism to get rare drops and dofuses gives players hope that they will actually get something after x amount of effort. Yes, they could still add dofuses as drops, but then it would fuck up the quest structure (if turq quest is prereq for next dofus quest, would dropping a turq mark all of the quests in turq chain as completed?). Lastly, I played for a few months when the solo servers came out and my personal experience was that quests weren't that bad. They are actually a good way to level up and gain kamas. As long as you had friends to play with, it was fun-ish to go dungeon hopping and do random shit that I wouldn't normally do. I will admit that trying to grind it would really suck (especially for multis). From Ankama's perspective, quests are probably cost efficient when it comes to new content, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was also one of their motivations.

 

Adding a price floor is... iffy too. Wouldn't that just mean that your stuff is more likely to expire than sell because the quantity on the market is so large? There are a few mechanisms that Ankama put into place for destroying unwanted resources. I don't know how effective they are though (especially for low lvl stuff).

 

Overall, I think Dofus has the problem that it has been around for too long. A lot of its changes make the game genuinely fun at lower levels. They did a seasonal solo account server that I think will be a popular thing for at least some time (even if it doesn't bring in much $$). Other than that, I don't know which part of the french base brings them the most cash. I would have liked them to modernize and streamline a bit, but there isn't really a business case for implementing stuff like the hero system from wakfu.

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the truth is that dofus is cancer, it’s just that we love cancer (c)

 

:^)

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Watch this: https://statofus.com/fr/

 

They are still developing their game. Right now it seems they are trying to jump on the E-Sports bandwagon. (i doubt dofus will ever succeed on this, please proof me wrong!)

If stats from my link are right, its just the international community that is struggeling in population. Right now all servers seem to notice a loss at their playerbase. But than again, i don't know the source of these numbers. Surprisingly, dofus touch seems to be very successful.

 

Taking a look at their current quest design (Brotherhood of the forgotten) i have to say i don't like their quest design. By far to many fights in this quests that have to be done solo (very hard) or with other NPCs (stupid AI - flower fight). If there is a fight achievable in a group its incredibly hard! (Beyound the coast, WTF?)

 

I would really love seeing rare drops again that are taking advantage of prospecting. Thats the thrill this game needs and is keeping the dungeons populated.

Edited by winged-one
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As for good points, I'd stress the class changes (along with spell variants, shields being relevant and Dofus revamp). Classes are very "clean" today as opposed to old times where classes were a huge mess (weapon spam, half of spells irrelevant, several times the same spell like Sacrieur punishments or Feca reductions). If the game is worthy of "tactical MMO", it's clearly today and not in its past.

 

You can't list Idols as good since they've damaged the game a lot, not fulfilling their goal at all. The idol pool is big and diverse enough, meaning you can choose specifically the ones that you won't care about, for example "intouchable" idols on a big map and a ranged team (very typical) or "CC" idols as Kyoub or Payo. For the benefit, there's just no reason to increase difficulty when you can just put ignorable compositions. At the same time, they allow to increase drop and XP rate as was never possible before, so they've highly contributed to price dump of PvM ressources.

 

Quests or drop for Dofuses are a matter of taste, but quests are the healthier way. If they're only obtainable as a rare drop, solo accounters have more or less no chance to obtain them (or name me a solo character that grinds Vulbis^^). It's a bit the same principle as with the achievement ressources that lower a lot the price of boss mats, but that give a chance to solo or duo accounters. Otherwise, repeating the same dungeon dozens of times just to craft some items is just insupportable for solo chars. not to mention repetitive and dumb (sorry, this part is subjective!). The era of Dofus being a 99% farm game is over. Come to think of it, rare drop still exists with Vulbis and is getting reintroduced with 2.48 and future updates. Also, modern questlines are driving away from frequent running from NPC to NPC (of course, you still need that to tell a story!). I think for example of the Abyssal Dofus questline that is quite short and rather bases on your skills. You can do it in a single day if you're very experienced and familiar with the content. You could say questlines are also inaccessible with a single character, but recruiting friends for 2-3 group fights is a completely different thing than to have a big team to begin with. 

 

Not convinced by your argument of forcing PvM players to do PvP. PvM mats still sell (me for example, I buy 100% of the monster mats in market if I make a new set, and plenty of others too, there are still quite expensive ones especially for the newest areas). Other than that, there are a lot of ways to make money and it's natural for players to possess a certain amount. If someone is disadvantaged, it's by far the PvPers that entirely rely on kolo tokens, not the PvMers. 

 

As for the decline of players, you shouldn't forget that back in the day, you were younger and exploring the game for the first time. Now we are all getting older with less time for the game. Also, the competition is just enormous today as opposed to a decade ago (LoL, Fortnite, OW, etc). As the game has remained an MMO with grinding, it just barely stands a chance to attract new players as opposed to let's say Fornite. I feel like these aspects have more weight than all the supposedly bad evolutions.

 

For me, it's obvious that from a quality standpoint, Dofus is leagues and leagues ahead of back in the day (even if there is nostalgia).

 

 

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Just because this is so much a topic I would I write a full essay on (ask anyone here who never read my 15 pages of ranting). I'll just do this:

1. Our community was listened to for 2 years upon start. Our ideas could actually be implemented. A community manager who dealt with cheaters personally to sanction them. He's gone and unfortunately he can never return.

2. In the beginning of Kaolys carrier she tried to forward our ideas. It never worked but at least she did a wonderful job with managing the volunteers. Moderators and Game Masters (Leniad and Shashel :*).

3. One of these volunteers became the next CM. She had no influence whatsoever but she cared a lot for the community (and she has since 2005). When nobody listens to you, it can become a tad demotivating.

 

When you shop for bananas, you go to your store and buy bananas. If a banana is brown, you get offered a yellow one instead.

When you shop for subscription, you go to Ankama and buy subscription. If your experience is brown, the customer is always wrong. Have they ever given anyone credit for doing something well in their game? In a community based game, isn't this a tad messed up? Want me to list all the communityoriented projects they've launched but never fulfilled the past 14 years?


Ankama could do with some help from the community. They've literally been ignoring us for 10 years. In the slight 1 in a million chances one of them would read this: no - pretending to read our content is not the same thing. They know that we know and they think they can save the situation without us. Pride? Idiocrazy? Incompetence? A new and well planned strategy? How would I know. They almost never talk to me. I like the 1.29 version because it's a lot more balanced then 2.4. You don't need massive guides to manage. You can make your self a solid income in 100 different ways (even though they are currently ruining this too right now). Most of all, you have an active and awesome community.

 

Personally, I think more then half of this game is broken today. When you can't leave the game for 2 months and come back because of the massive overhauls. Instead you have to re-learn so much of what you used to know.

 

Edit: Imagine Dofus as a game where the loyal players (you guys and not the new customers) could decide in which direction the game would take. You know, in an MMO that is all about social activities online. The players control the game. The developers would be gods.

Edited by Youbutsu
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I think Ankama in general just need to have a sit down and really think about which direction they want to go and whether they're happy to continue the way they are.

 

I'd personally like to see them stop getting side tracked and taking staff and time away from their main projects to create games which won't and never will generate an audience or a profit margin. Instead they could be working on their own form of project such as dofusplanner or something similar i.e dofusgo, there's no excuse as to why their player base as beaten them to create such things.

 

Another issue I find is that -

A. Subscription expenses are extortionate, if I sub 8 characters every month it'll cost me roughly £32, or £380 a year, give or take, which makes you ask yourself, who are Ankama's target audience? And to subscribe 8 accounts through kamas is near impossible.

B. They REALLY need to stop adding pre-existing, rare and expensive cosmetics into ogrine packages, imagine playing the game for years and years, finally being able to afford a cosmetic that you've wanted, only for them to add it to a package a week later, causing you to lose your dofus careers worth of savings. There's other ways to push profit margins and revenue, whether it's through marketing or advertisements.

C. Are they ever going to try and push dofus in other countries through advertisements? It's a worrying thought for a player of the international community to constantly see our numbers dying, in all honesty we may as well all be merged into French servers, at the moment we're just waiting to die out. 

D. Isn't it about time guilds were revamped, maybe something past just obtaining level200? infact, whilst they're at it they may as well work on the flop that alliances have always been. Give us a reason to actually be part of an alliance.

E. Community events? I don't remember the last time a mod logged in game to organise something for the community other than maybe to hand out a few fireworks. 1.29 days where they'd organise guild 8 v 8's, PvP tournaments, GOULT FFS!?! given that these are all PvP orientated, but I tell you now, there were thousands of players, even on shika at the time, flooding In to be a part and see what was going on. 

F. I mean, what even is the use of prospecting anymore? It's completely and utterly lost it's value through achievement drops and dofus questlines to the point where half of the new end game gear doesn't even include prospecting anymore, because guess what? Even ankama realise it's pointless. Want 8 of a certain drop per character per fight? Use some idols. 

G. Dungeons and access to dungeons, crafting certain keys are near impossible for you to obtain in masses such as royal rainbow blop or dreggon dungeon, the recipes are extremely outdated and so are the amounts of experience you gain from the majority of dungeons, -nidas with 20000 idol score.

H. Give us an actual decent service with decent response times and informative replies to issues, with a much better attitude than copy/paste replies.

 

All in all there's been far too many neglected aspects of dofus and I honestly believe it's down to mismanagement, not really knowing which direction they want to take the game and throwing staff onto unwanted spin off games rather than fixing/updating what could be a GREAT game.

 

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1 hour ago, Tezar said:

A. Subscription expenses are extortionate, if I sub 8 characters every month it'll cost me roughly £32, or £380 a year, give or take, which makes you ask yourself, who are Ankama's target audience? And to subscribe 8 accounts through kamas is near impossible.

Bullshit, if u can't afford subscribing 8 accs you are basically just zaap sitting with them. Well if you did some QUESTS u'd know that something like daily quests exist which can provide some kamas so it doesnt require other people to actually buy your items/resources.

 

1 hour ago, Tezar said:

F. I mean, what even is the use of prospecting anymore? It's completely and utterly lost it's value through achievement drops and dofus questlines to the point where half of the new end game gear doesn't even include prospecting anymore, because guess what? Even ankama realise it's pointless. Want 8 of a certain drop per character per fight? Use some idols. 

Bullshit aswell, 508 era is over, prospecting is useful in some cases for example to drop KEY WHICH STARTS A QUEST. 700 pp is easily doable, base % drop for that key is 5%, with 700pp it increases drastically.

 

8 hours ago, VcentG said:

More micro-transactions and less p2p would be beneficial.

There are many micro transactions? Didn't realize it. 'less p2p', what's the problem? Ankama increased the f2p zone, it's not that hard to make 600kk a week(or even less if u know how to spend your kamas properly and save up a bit) 

 

8 hours ago, VcentG said:

-Recipes - The "new" item recipes are terrible. Requiring pebbles, irrelevant mob materials and other junk. Yes, I get what they were going for ("let's make everyone useful!") but again it forces a player to do too many things they don't want. If the draw of the game is the combat, and I clearly like PvM since I'm spamming dungeons. Why do I now have to go and find some way to make money (because pvm mats hardly sell except super rare ones) to buy pvp mats?

You say it like "old" items are bad. check out this set for example https://www.dofusplanner.com/ZjOxo Is it bad?No. Does it have any lvl 200 items? No. Is it expensive? No. I belive it's possible to do every dungeon lvl 200 in that set (with 3 other characters ofc). What's your excuse then? if u can't make money you won't have the 'best' or 'newest' equipment. And there are people who buy monster resources(for example me because i am too lazy to go and farm each resource i am missing to make a set).

 

 

People say that the game is dying. Why do they say that, because they are bored or maybe they can't do anything else than complaining because they suck?

It's dying because of people who say that. 

 

It's not like i am on the side with ankama, I do get bored sometimes aswell because i am actually out of things to do in game (except breeding) and making more kamas... But thats not the reason to complain like little bitches and say that the game is dying.

@Tezarstop buying kamas so maybe ankama will provide some new quality changes because they'll be low on money XDDDD

Edited by Woof-Zwei
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43 minutes ago, Woof-Zwei said:

You say it like "old" items are bad. check out this set for example https://www.dofusplanner.com/ZjOxo Is it bad?No. Does it have any lvl 200 items? No. Is it expensive? No. I belive it's possible to do every dungeon lvl 200 in that set (with 3 other characters ofc). What's your excuse then? if u can't make money you won't have the 'best' or 'newest' equipment. And there are people who buy monster resources(for example me because i am too lazy to go and farm each resource i am missing to make a set).

What? Literally none of that rant is relevant to his point. (Also, using dregg hat in PvM lmao)

Pebbles in recipes is fine imo, they're cheap and everyone can get them. It's really nothing in comparison to 90+ mats that are like 50kk ea for certain items, so still complaining about this makes little sense to me.

 

43 minutes ago, Woof-Zwei said:

People say that the game is dying. Why do they say that, because they are bored or maybe they can't do anything else complaining because they suck?

It's dying because of people who say that. 

No and no. The game is dying because people that have been long time players are losing interest, and Ankama doesn't seem able to haul in enough new players to counter that. I think the game itself isn't dying, it's just the international community. I don't complain because I simply don't care enough, but if you try to deny it it's because you're either blind or just stupid. Seeing you argue people complain because they suck, it's most likely the latter. 

It really isn't weird that for many, after 10 years of playing they start to lose interest and develop an actual life where there is no time or place for Dofus anymore. 

Trust me, at some point you will too lose interest to log on just to perform some tedious and repetitive tasks to keep your p2p or farm a new item you want.

 

I HAVE THE ATTENTION SPAN OF A 6 YEAR OLD AND AM FAR TOO POMPOUS TO READ THAT, BUT FEEL FULLY QUALIFIED TO COMMENT ANYWAY EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL THIS IS REALLY ABOUT. HERE IS MY RESPONSE THAT WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE THREAD.

the game is too old and messed up, ankama can't easily fix it without taking a huge amount of time to undo some of their terrible design choices

Edited by bobeur
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There is nothing wrong with using dreggon hat in pvm, trust me. That is true what u said about people losing interest, but what i meant is some people just leave the game because someone throws a gossip like 'um this game is dying dont play it's not worth it' i played many games and i saw ppl like that. My post could be received as offensive but its not what i meant.

 

Tbh I am at that point where i just log in and check paddocks XD

Edited by Woof-Zwei

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On 10/3/2018 at 3:35 PM, Woof-Zwei said:

People say that the game is dying. Why do they say that, because they are bored or maybe they can't do anything else than complaining because they suck?

It's dying because of people who say that.

Many of us (the people posting here) has been around practically since start. We know what our community used to look like contra what it is today. I've had over 1000 people in my guild (Blank) over the years. I remember a majority of them, at least by name. Do you know how many of them that still are playing? Max 20. It's not about becoming "adult". I'm 36, I have good jobs, educations, houses, wife etcetera and I still log on to play with people in similar situations from servers all over on 1.29 servers. I even know players who got kids in the early days of dofus where their kids are playing too. Many of us are still around but majority quit 2.x to get back what was lost. Some things could definitely be better on 1.29 but overall it is 100 times better then 2.0 in some aspects (the ones we personally prefer).

Now Bob explained it pretty good. It's players like us who make the community. If we are gone, there will no longer be a community. People that are "new" (2012 and after) have no idea what our community used to be, why someone like "Rambopl" was such a huge deal or even who he was. How to efficiently farm kamas without using bots, third party programs or real money to progress. Experience and drops is out of the question. On 2.x servers it's a joke compared to what it used to be.

MMO <---

 

Good luck when you have no history, no welcome and no knowledge. Who the hell did you think shared how to do anything in this game from start anyway. Without us, wiki, youtube, dofusplanner etc wouldn't be around to lean on when you have too much problem figuring out this game. Give us credits and listen to us at least once, BAH. So freaking frustrating.

 

Our communities could fix this game, no doubt. Ankama keeps saying they'll lean on us but once their projects starts - it gets put in the shelf again and we get ignored (just look at the breeding system). Mentorship, moderators (how many years has the applications been closed now?), Game Masters (not Moderators) - do we even have any? How many community managers have we gone through - 10? How many of OUR ideas have been implemented? That project when certain players were invited to a community platform in OF (I even forget the name) to discuss improvements. How many remember Serianne, how it was managed and why only Jiva and Djaul had it while we were left without? Harvestpale is the #1 person I can come to think about. Livitems (Tweaks still make me nostalgic ^_^), items, resources etc with referrals to players in our community - those are the only credits we've gotten since 2007. Everything people like Gravestorm, Veldin, Rob, Ala, Belokk, Blueballs etc have done without even getting a thank you.

 

They focus on money rather on a living community and that is where they fail, no doubt. If they just would listen, this game would flourish - I have no doubt. People would come back and people would start playing and stay.

Edited by Youbutsu
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Thanks for this thread, really great insights going on!

 

The game is great but whenever I think of Dofus a part of me gets depressed. The reasons are aplenty but most of which only boil down to really serious issues like:

 

-End game dungeons difficulty + specific characters requirement

I loathe the fact that unless I have a specific composition of characters, I can forget ever successfully running a dungeon. Why do I have to have an elio/cra/enu to run 99% of dungeons? Why can't I run them with whichever character I want? If not, what's the point of playing with said character if it's allure lies only in PvP or nothing at all? This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the game. I can eventually manage to complete the dungeon with my chars but at what cost? At the cost of countless brain cells lost as a result of 50+ futile attempts. Nowadays, I have much less time to play the game and I feel that I speak for everyone when I say that the one thing that nobody likes is to come home from work, hop on Dofus and die twenty times to a dungeon boss.

 

-Immunity of dungeon bosses

What's with all this immunity horseshit lately? Almost every end-game boss is immune nowadays and in order to vuln it we have to complete a specific procedure that normally requires specific classes. Why? Why can't there be more than 1 way to complete a dungeon? Push this, pull that, hit it on turn 3, hide behind a wall and if you wait X turns it gets vulned!  Where in the fuck is the fun in that?

 

-Outdated houses

A few years back I took a hiatus (1-2 years) and left with the hope that houses would get revamped. I raged pretty hard when I returned to realise that not only did they do absolutely nothing to houses but instead implemented the colossally useless Haven Bags instead. As if houses need a change. The only interactable items in a house are the chests, stairs and a door. Oh, my apologies for forgetting the eternally-paramount clocks and mirrors which prompt a little sentence in your dialogue box. Sure, they wanted a money-grab (Haven Bags) but this really disappoints me when they could have implemented ideas such as:

 

1) Furniture interaction

2) Addition of furniture/chests/workbenches via recipes/ogrines

3) Purchasing of new rooms to store stuff

4) Addition of the option to have your own garden (plant flowers, trees etc) or even cave extensions (for ore veins)

Etc.

 

I've refrained from opening dozens of cans of worms but the recurring motif of this game is that it's wasted potential. The game could be so much more appealing if certain issues were taken into account. Apart from that, the fact that there is absolutely zero advertisement being done outside France is suffice to show us that the opinions of the international community matter very little if anything at all.

Edited by The_Golden_One
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Dofus got sidetracked for almost 2 years because ToT got an existential crisis and sent a portion of the dofus team to create dofus3/dofuscube/waven/wakfuheroes. They created mechanics and animations for like 3 or 4 dofus-like games, and all they got out of it was some NPC designs (that look out of place in dofus, in my opinion). It's not just the wasted resources, but it alienated a portion of the community when they kept bait and switching dofus development for this other projects. A whole year of "We will add spell variations in dofALSO LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT DOFUSCUBE".


They dubbed 2017 the year of communication, but most communication wasn't about dofus. And then they promised a 2018 roadmap that they were in the process of ignoring until they recently killed most of the sideprojects. By now we were supposed to have the ebony dofus, a proper dungeon matchmaking and some proffesion revamp (unless that was covered by fusing markets and doubling harvest xp).

 

My impression is that for a while the devs thought that they could skip on making content and make players create their own content. This is what gave us AvA, idols and community challenges. AvA is exclusive by nature, so a lot of people don't benefit at all from it. Idols were abused to farm with little added difficulty and since their introduction, they've only been nerfed instead of expanded upon. Community challenges were used to scam people for a few days and then forgotten. I think in the future they should look into making community content cooperative instead of competitive. Like, getting bonuses just by being in a guild with many (active) players and such.

 

I'ts not all bad, though. I think the recent pet revamp was mostly positive. The xp values and some of the bonuses are not balanced, but they managed to make a unified system that removed a lot of outdated stuff (pet certificates, pet ghosts, feeding times, pet dungeon) while also adding value to other content and properly integrating pets into the game instead of being treated as boutique items.

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-End game dungeons difficulty + specific characters requirement

I loathe the fact that unless I have a specific composition of characters, I can forget ever successfully running a dungeon. Why do I have to have an elio/cra/enu to run 99% of dungeons? Why can't I run them with whichever character I want? If not, what's the point of playing with said character if it's allure lies only in PvP or nothing at all? This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the game. I can eventually manage to complete the dungeon with my chars but at what cost? At the cost of countless brain cells lost as a result of 50+ futile attempts. Nowadays, I have much less time to play the game and I feel that I speak for everyone when I say that the one thing that nobody likes is to come home from work, hop on Dofus and die twenty times to a dungeon boss.

 

-Immunity of dungeon bosses

What's with all this immunity horseshit lately? Almost every end-game boss is immune nowadays and in order to vuln it we have to complete a specific procedure that normally requires specific classes. Why? Why can't there be more than 1 way to complete a dungeon? Push this, pull that, hit it on turn 3, hide behind a wall and if you wait X turns it gets vulned!  Where in the fuck is the fun in that?

 

 

Specific character requirement has never existed for any dungeon in the game. There are simply classes that are the easiest to use when it comes to a certain aspect (Elio for fast damage increase, Iop for easiest blitzing and general damage, Enu for easiest MP reduction, Panda for the easiest placement, etc). However, in PvP, classes are more or less balanced and it's not like Iop for example laughs at the entire rest of damage dealers or anything like that (isnt this weird?!). As it's competitive, players are interested in exploiting more classes even if they are a bit more unusal to use. PvM is naturally easier and non-competitive, so players choose the most straight forward way to do it. 

 

If anything is to blame, it's the difference of difficulty between the classes so that 90% of PvM teams are similar. I feel like the issue has absolutely nothing to do with the dungeons themselves, any role is fulfilled by plenty of classes especially since spell variants and shields. It's tiring that this illusion continues to persist, even though they already banalized a lot with the 2.42 update.

 

Immunities, invulnerabilities and generally mechanics are a must, otherwise all dungeons would be exactly the same. There are also dungeons with no invulnerability (Abyss dungeons or QoT for example) and they are neither easier, nor less annoying because of that fact. Invulnerability is weird to mention as it's one of the most banal things when it comes to mechanics (for the most part, it's just a single action required, I have no idea how this can be annoying). At other times it just defines the character of the fight (like Catseye). 

 

Different mechanics keep dungeons fresh and make the diversity of approaches that you adapt when doing a dungeon.

 

Basically, what you do is complaining that Dofus is a tactical MMORPG, where in that case it would just be enough to leave the game, because there is nothing to blame. Maybe, they should have invested in different difficulty levels for each dungeon.

 

 

Edited by masik233
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What baffles me is that Ankama has no concept of taking small steps to try and improve the game. Everytime they change something, it's like they had an epiphany and decide to completely overhaul some aspects of the game, and this approach deals in extremes. It's completely hit or miss. This also makes it difficult to take breaks from the game. People go on breaks for whatever reason, and once they are back, they see that nothing they possess is relevant anymore, and guess what, that break just turned into a quit.

 

Why not start with baby steps? Take small steps and see how the community responds. My biggest issue with the game right now is how dead it is. I play on PST and log on after work to find the same 3 people online and absolutely nothing going on. Granted this timezone doesn't have the largest player base but certainly there are steps which could be taken to fix these issues.

 

A very basic example would be to have dedicated players playing in different timezones(offered some compensation like ogrines) to organize some events on a frequent basis. There is no community right now whatsoever.

 

Even if what I just said completely fails, it was a baby step and there isn't any irreparable damage done.

 

Compare this  to completely revamping pets (not their worst idea) but some 36 of my Croums and Scaradors just became worthless. Not only did I lose a lot of money, but I also have to spend more money into maxing out new pets.

 

Why does everything they do have to be giant leaps of faith hoping that things will work out?

 

 

Edited by Oxisius
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I'm on my phone with 4% battery so I'll be brief. First off can I just say this is the most chat I've seen in the past 2 weeks I've been scouting the forum XD.

 

For those agreeing with my points or at least some thanks. Because I thought I was gonna be slammed by everyone and told I'm just a noob doing everything wrong. 

 

As for disagreements...I will admit some of my post may be ignorant (like saying idols are good) I have only just seen what they can do and it seemed like a nice way to boost difficulty.... which is great in a tactics game. Did they ruin the economy and such? No clue.

 

As for the p2p is easily affordable for 8 chars unless you're zaap sitting? This is 100% not true. Or wasn't when I quit before. I literally made dofus videos.... do you know how many runs I did a day? The new achievements and recipes have destroyed the market for rare materials from dungeons because they're simply not rare anymore. So you're suggesting i should spend ALL my time doing other stuff I dont want to do  just to buy p2p and do it all over again next month? Kind of weird ideaology dont you think? In fact money seems to literally come from exo maging or doing quests and selling your dofus lol. 1 requires capital for runes or other professions to get runes. The other requires... questing... gear sales work too but anything that sells for a decent amount that isn't oversaturated doesn't come from farming dungeons or normal mobs. So no... you are not just "zaap sitting" if you can't afford 23mk (last I checked it was 690 an ogrine I think... it's in the dofus again thread) a month just for p2p not even including trying to better your characters. This is why a BASE economy would have made this game amazing for everyone. It keeps the rich from being astronomically higher than others. While some can barely afford to get out of piwi set at lvl 50 *cough* (to be fair piwi sets are much better and I did buy toady set and mad tofu cloak). Most of the materials I've gathered (even after doing some higher level stuff with other people) sells for 1 -80 mamas each. I got dark pikoko nuts. Which used to go for 40-150kk at different times depending on saturation... sell for 15kk on solo account server. There's no base economy so values of items drop too far. And the rich who can afford the very few rare items on the server can literally monopolize it. And the next guy only has to undercut him by 1mk and it looks like a steal but in reality is still way overpriced.

 

And yes  quests do build lore. I have nothing against quests. I said they are fine. But look at something like WoW (I know I shouldn't go there XD)  you can quest your way through that game or you can spam dungeons. Both work. Both will get you to end game. Dofus? It's literally quest 24/7 now. Fight every once in a while. (If more quests were just fight this or that for mats and less run around I would actually probably not care).

 

Also golden one. I do agree on some parts. But I dont mind the boss invulns. Because it's kind of a requirement so people dont run in and hulk smash it instantly and remove any form of tactics. It is semi annoying that EVERY boss seems to need it but yeah... what else can ya do? I mean I prefer having at least some kind of strategy that makes it more tactical. I'm sure there are other ways. Hell they could make the boss just not spawn til waves or something. Isn't that how wakfu works? Surely with their new advancements they could pull stuff off like that. So I agree but also dont have a better solution so I accept it as it is. 

 

Oxi you are definitely right about the big leaps. I dont mind big leaps when you know they're good. But is it just me or does Ankama tend to be cryptic about their big updates and then it's like BOOOOOM. I can't even recognize the game from what it was before. Some of that's good and some is bad. 

 

Anyway at 2% and I dont want it to shut off and I lose all this so... it's nice to see you all chatting even if we have disagreements. But no matter how you slice it.... dofus is dying or at least as someone said internationally. But that WILL come to bite them so it's worth noting that it's still important. 

Edited by VcentG
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I kind of feel like they want dofus to die and start a new game XD

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2 hours ago, Azmorea said:

I kind of feel like they want dofus to die and start a new game XD

Wakfu 2 here we come? 😂 but yeah it's definitely weird. I mean you dont even have to kill the game to work on a new one. Just stop updating and ride the wave until it crashes while you utilise resources elsewhere. 

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I actually enjoy wakfu 😅

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12 hours ago, masik233 said:

If anything is to blame, it's the difference of difficulty between the classes so that 90% of PvM teams are similar. I feel like the issue has absolutely nothing to do with the dungeons themselves, any role is fulfilled by plenty of classes especially since spell variants and shields. It's tiring that this illusion continues to persist, even though they already banalized a lot with the 2.42 update.

 

Immunities, invulnerabilities and generally mechanics are a must, otherwise all dungeons would be exactly the same. There are also dungeons with no invulnerability (Abyss dungeons or QoT for example) and they are neither easier, nor less annoying because of that fact. Invulnerability is weird to mention as it's one of the most banal things when it comes to mechanics (for the most part, it's just a single action required, I have no idea how this can be annoying). At other times it just defines the character of the fight (like Catseye). 

 

Different mechanics keep dungeons fresh and make the diversity of approaches that you adapt when doing a dungeon.

 

Basically, what you do is complaining that Dofus is a tactical MMORPG, where in that case it would just be enough to leave the game, because there is nothing to blame. Maybe, they should have invested in different difficulty levels for each dungeon.

I couldn't disagree more with what you said here. What you call a "banal illusion" is my and many others' reality. Most of us don't have the time or desire to spam-attempt dungeons with the wrong characters. It took me a long 46 attempts (counted) to kill QoT without a cra/enu/elio (won't mention Meno & other dungeons). I mean- I won in the end so it shouldn't matter, right? Wrong. If the only way of winning the fight in an adequate time frame is having a specific set of characters, then there's something seriously wrong with the planning of the game.

 

Another point I'd like to make is that my argument here will probably fall on deaf ears since there are a multitude of extremely talented players here who have completed QoT in 5 minutes or other laudable feats that most other players can only admire. Understand that these are extreme circumstances and that the average player in the contemporary gaming world doesn't derive pleasure from continuous torture.

 

Regarding the boss invulnerabilities, again- very strong disagreement here. If you think that all dungeons will be the same if they were all vulnerable proves to show me that you have very little experience with the bosses of other games, where, for the most part, there is an ideal method for killing it but other methods are also welcome. This is my issue here, there is only ever 1 way of defeating invulnerable dungeon bosses in Dofus and as a result, (to intertwine my other point above) specific characters are required.

 

I also feel that you sabotage your entire point with the sentence I made in bold. You are so very correct here. Expanding mechanics beyond the same old do-this-procedure-to-vuln-for-X-turns-&-repeat schtick will only improve the game and offer players the opportunity to use unconventional character compositions.

 

I'm also disappointed that you closed off with the same-old "If you don't like it then leave" catchphrase that so many people regurgitate when a topic like this is brought up. I voice my concerns because I love the game and I feel that its appeal can increase substantially if certain mechanics are reviewed.

Edited by The_Golden_One
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i disagree that u need a specific class compo to beat a certain invulnerable boss dung;

the spell variants as well as new equips (such as shields) allow all classes to be effective in various different cases, not to mention the nerf of most of endgame dungs;

could you give an example of a dung and a class compo that struggles with it?

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1 hour ago, Quadro said:

i disagree that u need a specific class compo to beat a certain invulnerable boss dung;

the spell variants as well as new equips (such as shields) allow all classes to be effective in various different cases, not to mention the nerf of most of endgame dungs;

could you give an example of a dung and a class compo that struggles with it?

Kevin-jr and range-co vs gobbal dungeon

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4 hours ago, Azmorea said:

I actually enjoy wakfu 😅

 

Say hello to rambopl and dy-seath from me!

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1 hour ago, Youbutsu said:

 

Say hello to rambopl and dy-seath from me!

 

1 hour ago, Youbutsu said:

 

Say hello to rambopl and dy-seath from me!

Nox server :D?

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