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We are opening this roundtable on Breeding because we want to make significant changes in the next major update (2.47) and we would like to explain our intentions and get your feedback.

 


Our main objectives:


    Limit the excessive generation of Mounts (mainly Dragoturkeys) to guarantee them a higher value.
    
Increase the global destruction of resources and boost the economy of Breeding Items.
    
Strengthen the mechanics of decreasing profitability: the more players (at the scale of a server) raise Mounts, the higher the consumption of Breeding Items must increase and therefore limit the profitability of raising additional Mounts (setting up a natural and dynamic balance).
    
Allow players to be able to do Breeding without needing active breeding (use of Emotes), to get rid of this too repetitive and too poor mechanic.
    
Limit the almost exponential proliferation of Dragoturkey abilities and allow the natural introduction of the Chameleon trait for Dragoturkeys.

 


The changes we are considering:


Making Paddocks account based


The Paddock would be managed at the scale of the account and no longer by character (just like the Bank).
We wish to discourage the multiplication of characters to artificially increase the size of the Paddocks.
The size of the Paddocks would not be increased, we do not wish to encourage farms more massive than those currently in place (which contribute to a production of mounts that we consider excessive).

 


Wear and choice of Breeding Items in public Paddocks


Public Paddocks are necessary to ensure easy access to the breeding functionality of the majority of players, but the absence of wear and tear on Breeding Items allows some players to multiply the number of mounts raised in public Paddocks by multiplying the number of characters used for breeding.

We would like to remove the default Breeding Items in public Paddocks, and let the players use their own Breeding Items (instantiated).
Through this modification, we wish to reintroduce a simple and natural mechanism, already present in private Paddocks: raising more mounts will increase the wear of the Breeding Items, accelerate their destruction, require more production of them and thus increase their price. This mechanism makes it possible to regulate the disproportionate production of mounts while actively participating in the destruction of game resources.

 


Size and bonus of public Paddocks


Public Paddocks would have 10 places in Bonta and Brakmar and 5 places in Astrub. Bonuses earned in public Paddocks would be reduced by 20% (non-final value) compared to those earned in private Paddocks.

 


Number of public Paddocks


There would be 1 Paddock in Bonta, Brakmar and Astrub.

 


Suppression of active Breeding and improvement of passive Breeding


Currently it is possible to earn significant bonuses for the mounts through active breeding (use of Emotes, adding and removing the mounts in the Paddock). This operation does not seem satisfactory because it encourages players to repeat these very basic actions in a loop. This way of playing seems very boring and does not correspond to what we want to value in the game, so we do not want to encourage it.

We would like to remove active breeding (bonus gains when a mount activates a Breeding Item after a player's action) and increase the efficiency of passive breeding so that it offers the same efficiency.
Our goal is to allow you to be as effective in passive breeding as in active breeding, but without having to follow the same actions in a loop.

Of course, Emotes would always allow to position the mounts in the Paddocks.

 


Transmission of traits for Dragoturkeys


At present the transmission of traits is almost exponential (it becomes easier with time to transmit select traits to other Dragoturkeys).
This operation does not seem satisfactory to us because it makes it too easy to breed optimum Dragoturkeys, which makes it possible to flood the Dragoturkey market with optimized mounts.

We would like to reduce the probability of transmission of Dragoturkey traits to a 1 in 15 chance.

 

 

Reduction of Dragoturkey generation


The Dragoturkeys currently have 20 reproductions, we would like to reduce this value to limit Dragoturkey breeding.
We envisage several possibilities: limit the number of reproductions to 10 or allow 5 basic reproductions + 1 reproduction every 20 levels (which would give a certain control to the player by allowing them to increase the number of reproductions for certain mounts).

 


Natural reintroduction of the Chameleon trait for Dragoturkeys


We would like the Chameleon trait to appear (and be transmitted) naturally on Dragoturkeys.

 


Modification of Breeding Item recipes


We want to review all the recipes for Breeding Items to reduce the number of ingredients in common between the recipes.
We want Dungeon Keeper Essences to be important and limiting factors in these recipes and not the common ingredients.
We would also like to add missing Breeding Items (those that correspond to Dungeon Keeper Essences that have not been used yet).

 


Balancing of the mount bonuses and new species


We would like to review the Dragoturkey bonuses so that those of the first generations are more competitive with those of the last generations.
We also want to make sure that each of the three Dragoturkey species has a significant and specific bonus (as with the Seemyool MP bonus for example).

A third kind of mount is in preparation, it should fill some gaps while creating a new breeding market.

 


Conclusion


We are aware that these changes mainly concern restrictions on breeding and that they will reduce the production of mounts.
Our goal is to find a healthy breeding system with fewer mounts generated.
We want the individual price of mounts to increase and we need to make sure that the breeding market is not as saturated as it is now.

We ask you to address these changes in their entirety and not individually.

Edited by Gravestorm
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About time! 

 

I'm here hoping they'll remove the requirement of a mount being lvl 5 to be able to breed it. Got thousands of unaccepted achievs that I used to lvl those but i was always to lazy to breed so they added up nicely over the years

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I'll keep pretending breeding and breeding achievements aren't actually part of the game. Why do they have those achievements while trying to desincentivise easy and widespread breeding? It already seemed like fake difficulty, even more so with those planned changes.

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This is a really aggressive suite of changes. Big time breeders are going to freak out over the changes to sheds alone. At least some will dramatically quit today.

 

The changes to breeding items are terrible! Many breeding items are economically nonviable because of the pricey resources required + poor durability or effects. The ones that appear in the markets are very expensive. And probably don't even have full or any durability.

 

The combination of the item changes + public paddock changes are a major nerf on anyone who used public paddocks. Private paddocks aren't an option for most. Now there's suddenly a massive recurring cost to breeding in public paddocks and a fraction of the productivity?

 

Obviously, Ankama wants to remove breeding as an option to make kamas. They're trying to drive people away from using public paddocks for profit at all. They're also trying to encourage people to use private paddocks, but this is just a way to reduce the raw number of players who can utilize this system for any sort of profit. And they're making the entire thing extremely expensive.

 

Also, surprise surprise, Ankama obviously did not put a single thought into how these changes will impact certain servers compared to others:

 

On servers with excessive numbers of paddock instances, such as Echo and some of the merged French servers, more people will be able to access private breeding. This will give the markets more of a chance to even out, since many people will be able to generate mounts and scrolls to sell. Demand for breeding items will be very high, which will make them less expensive. This will be more pronounced on the French servers (lots of paddock instances, lots of people) than Echo (lots of paddock instances, not as many people).

 

But the Spanish servers (3 paddock instances, lots of people), PT server (2 paddock instances, decent amount of people), Agride (ONE instance, lots of people, bot free/lite) will suffer varying degrees of economic pain. These changes will make scroll prices spike, and they won't go back down.

 

 

 

 


 

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3 hours ago, Gravestorm said:


A third kind of mount is in preparation, it should fill some gaps while creating a new breeding market.

 

 

more breeding achievements haha, what a fun game !!!!

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Make the rich richer and make it harder on the new players. This system doesn't benefit anyone. At my peak I was making over 100 million kamas each 6.6th day. I had closer to 20 18+ slot paddocks on Zatoishwan and competed with no one. Later I sold it all and continued on Rushu where the competition was higher but I still made over 50 million each 6.6th day (when I wanted to). The income will still cover the new items and the only thing this system do is making it harder and more expensive. The richer players will stay rich (prices will go up and breeders will earn more kamas), many will quit as their major income will be more complicated, and the newer players wont be able to compete. There's a limited access to paddocks even after the merge.

I do this on Henual 1.29 today. Paddocks are about the same as they were in 1.27. Menus are terrible with no way to sort them out and you have to 1. use another account to mate your mounts or 2. use a guildpaddock to mate them. Still, I prefer that 1000 times more then the system that is presented here, haha. It might seem broken to gain this much kamas, but it takes a lot to do it. You have to log on several times a day and it demands strategies that makes it harder to attend the other aspects in game. It's not a profession - it's a way of playing. Some people do endgame content for income, others do breeding. VERY few do both.

This idea is terrible because of the fact that you want to present the game to new players. This solution will chase them away.

Edited by Youbutsu
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4 hours ago, Gravestorm said:

We would like to remove the default Breeding Items in public Paddocks, and let the players use their own Breeding Items (instantiated).
Through this modification, we wish to reintroduce a simple and natural mechanism, already present in private Paddocks: raising more mounts will increase the wear of the Breeding Items, accelerate their destruction, require more production of them and thus increase their price.

Luckily you only need 10 end game boss mats with a 10% drop chance to get one good breeding item, so this is not a completely insane idea at all!

Maybe the economy of breeding items isn't dead because of public paddocks, but because of how tedious and expensive it is to make these items. 

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omg, no more breeding achieves pls

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Jeez they're still completely clueless huh? 

 

Edit: Also of all things why are they worried about DT prices?  The entire economy's a bit of a mess IMO and i don't think DT's are the problem at all. Seems everyone's selling shit but nobody's buying. 

Edited by RollTheDice
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Breeding achievements are at fault. They are just too hard to complete. Thus the market is getting flooded by the mounts of all the achievement breeders.

Edited by Vendline
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I'm pretty sure it's mostly because of scrolls, but yeah for those random striped mid range mounts nobody wants it's probably the achievements. But hey, nobody wants them anyway!

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21 hours ago, Gravestorm said:

Making Paddocks account based


The Paddock would be managed at the scale of the account and no longer by character (just like the Bank).
We wish to discourage the multiplication of characters to artificially increase the size of the Paddocks.
The size of the Paddocks would not be increased, we do not wish to encourage farms more massive than those currently in place (which contribute to a production of mounts that we consider excessive).

does this mean 1 shed per account ?? 

what about private paddocks? 

what from I understood, they are talking about 1 publick paddock per village per account no ? 

Edited by chebichev

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it's so damn clear why ankama is encouraging ppl to use private breeding items: they try so hard to increase resourse consumption in the server since those items require boss dung essences, and it's just to satisfy some nerd official forum noobs whining about devaluation of items aka "nO wAy To make KeMz";

 

imo it's same as when they restricted dung achieve rewards for same account and it's still the poor who gets affected, in breeding case it's only breeder who has to struggle more for same result while both boss mats' consumption and mount demand won't increase;

 

i doubt any1 in their right mind would craft a catseye manger to feed dam mounts; same for most of dung mats, it's a lot more efficient to use boss mats for crafting equips than some random breeding items, not to mention the fact that for the best breeding effect one would need at least 3-4 of same breeding types if one were to use private paddock which btw aren't even infinite and instead have a "lifespan";

 

they bet too much on breeding as an economy changer but they forget breeding itself has too many flaws;

 

it's just not worth to use breeding items for breeding: 1) cuz needs too much of investment in long time, 2) breeding nowadays isn't rly needed except for breeding achieves;

imagine u get 1 muldo and that's it, u use it and u'r happy, why buy more;

also dts in their current state are only cheap alternatives for muldos/pets, the stats aren't worth it expect for specific cases maybe;

 

 

conclusion:

breeding is a failure as an activity overall: boring, ineffective and not rly playing along with server's economy which ankama believes it's the case

 

Edited by Quadro
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46 minutes ago, chebichev said:

does this mean 1 shed per account ?? 

what about private paddocks? 

what from I understood, they are talking about 1 publick paddock per village per account no ? 

1) Yes, i.e. no more storing 250 mounts per char.

2) There is no difference in handling private or public paddocks, they'll all be account based. 

3) Since the public paddocks need your own breeding items they dont need 1 of each now. You can get an extra 25 spots using Brak, Bonta and Astrub.

Edited by bobeur

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They should probably make muldos exchangable for resources to justify the cost of breeding items. Most muldos aren't worth anything at all.

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You can exchange them for the quest reward items 'Pearl of the Depths' after finishing the Sufokia questline. Those let you buy the special material for exploration items or ambergis, and some titles. 

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There are way too many seemyools for the rewards though, you can basically ask any seemyool breeder and he will hapilly give you tons sterile seemyools for free. There has to be a wider range of possible rewards imo

Edited by Vendline

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I’ve never done any breeding, and don’t understand much/ anything at all about breeding. However I think I can safely assume that this update will make it exponentially harder to breed and obtain the achievements?

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Well they are revamping almost everything from breeding/mounts so i guess they might change the achievements too/make it easier to breed a new generation

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I don't think they will make 1 shed per account, it doesn't make any sence. 

 

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@chebichev It does when you will now need to subscribe more than one account to breed effectively. 

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-"limit the number of reproductions to 10 or allow 5 basic reproductions + 1 reproduction every 20 levels (which would give a certain control to the player by allowing them to increase the number of reproductions for certain mounts)."

 

-"This way of playing seems very boring and does not correspond to what we want to value in the game, so we do not want to encourage it."

 

pick one

Edited by _Xisgoronai
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Source please ?

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The OP? 

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34 minutes ago, chebichev said:

Source please ?

https://www.dofus.com/en/forum/2-general-discussion/333026-discussion-2-47-breeding-changes

Same copypasta but it's courtesy of our CM instead.

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