Prevent relisting on sellrooms

[winged-one 739]

Items listed with the same amount and price should not be placed on the bottom of "the stack".

They should rather be randomly picked out of the stack when a customer bought them.

 

There should also be a fixed time until you can relist items at lower prices.

 

I am forced to relist all the time and i want ankama to take away that possibilty of selling items. =)

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by winged-one

[ReaperSurm 840]

If you put something on the market 1st at price X, and someone else puts on market a few days later for price X. Why would it be fair to randomize who gets the sale? The first to put up, first to sell. 

 

If you want shit market systems, go move to some communist country. 

 

[winged-one 739]

On 5.3.2018 at 2:46 AM, ReaperSurm said:

If you put something on the market 1st at price X, and someone else puts on market a few days later for price X. Why would it be fair to randomize who gets the sale? The first to put up, first to sell. 

 

If you want shit market systems, go move to some communist country. 

 

 

please correct me if i got that wrong but i think *that* would be the case where sellroom prices would be regulated by ankama (what probably *is* fact anyways, heh...)

 

well i just don't want to relist 1K less all time...

[ReaperSurm 840]

1 hour ago, winged-one said:

 

please correct me if i got that wrong but i think *that* would be the case where sellroom prices would be regulated by ankama (what probably *is* fact anyways, heh...)

Yes, that's the whole point. If you have someone regulating the market, it destroys the market efficiencies. It's like econs 101.

 

Not to mention that when you list something for 1kamas less, you have to repay the fee. So if you think about it, leaving your item there and not relisting would actually yield more profit, providing you can wait longer for it to sell.

 

In addition, if you really think selling at the exact price something is supplied and demanded at is a quick sale, you're wrong. If you want a quick sale, you price under the market (and i mean by a few %, not a few kamas) in order to speed up the sale. 

 

This isn't a Dofus problem. It's just a cry-baby attempt to have Ankama give you free kamas because you can't compete effectively. If the world worked that way, all the retards with an IQ of 25 would be living in giant ass mansions because the government felt bad that they were unable to get work and gave them one for free.

 

 Is it annoying? Yes. Is it something that has to be fixed? Fuck no. Welcome to economics 101.

 

 

[winged-one 739]

41 minutes ago, ReaperSurm said:

Yes, that's the whole point. If you have someone regulating the market, it destroys the market efficiencies. It's like econs 101.

 

Not to mention that when you list something for 1kamas less, you have to repay the fee. So if you think about it, leaving your item there and not relisting would actually yield more profit, providing you can wait longer for it to sell.

 

In addition, if you really think selling at the exact price something is supplied and demanded at is a quick sale, you're wrong. If you want a quick sale, you price under the market (and i mean by a few %, not a few kamas) in order to speed up the sale. 

 

This isn't a Dofus problem. It's just a cry-baby attempt to have Ankama give you free kamas because you can't compete effectively. If the world worked that way, all the retards with an IQ of 25 would be living in giant ass mansions because the government felt bad that they were unable to get work and gave them one for free.

 

 Is it annoying? Yes. Is it something that has to be fixed? Fuck no. Welcome to economics 101.

 

 

 

Thanks for your lessons in very basic economy that i really didn't need.

 

We are talking about a market without product variation where you don't know from who you are buying.

Its all about watching (or botting) the market and lowering by 1K all the freaking time, needless to know you can buy that stuff A_LOT cheaper at  [-2,0] because you freaking won't sell there better even at a lot lower rates. I watched this in quite a lot years while selling a close to infinity amount runes created from questionable sources and this is continueing with charscrolls from mounts.

 

My socalled "crybaby" attitude is not even remotely related to "ima poor guy that is unable to sell his stuff" but rather to that i want to improve that game i'm playing. Take away the mindless stuff so its no more part of the game.

[ReaperSurm 840]

3 hours ago, winged-one said:

 

Thanks for your lessons in very basic economy that i really didn't need.

 

We are talking about a market without product variation where you don't know from who you are buying.

Its all about watching (or botting) the market and lowering by 1K all the freaking time, needless to know you can buy that stuff A_LOT cheaper at  [-2,0] because you freaking won't sell there better even at a lot lower rates. I watched this in quite a lot years while selling a close to infinity amount runes created from questionable sources and this is continueing with charscrolls from mounts.

 

My socalled "crybaby" attitude is not even remotely related to "ima poor guy that is unable to sell his stuff" but rather to that i want to improve that game i'm playing. Take away the mindless stuff so its no more part of the game.

You are literally crying because market isn't fair for you.

 

The whole concept of supply and demand (had you watched the video) is that with increased supply, or decreased demand, prices fall. If you are selling close to "infinite" number of runes, guess what, you're prices are going to be fucking turd. 

 

Welcome to Econs lesson 102, Price wars: 

 

 

Now that u realize u can't differentiate ur product unless it's something unique, guess what. You're fucked. If you keep dropping ur prices, you actually lose more than 1k item. Rather you lose 1kamas+sales fee. Why not just undercut by 1kk? or 5kk? More likely to sell, larger price differential. And if someone else undercuts, they're minimizing their margins even more. Eventually it wont be worth the profit on a resource, people will stop putting theirs on the market, and then the price will gradually go up as people continue to buy. Then once the price goes up, people are like, wow look nice profit margins on this recourse again, time to sell. Then it repeats. Stop by to econs 103 in a few hours time. 

 

 

 

 

ALSO not to mention your idea is basically impossible to implement. 

1. You'd literally have to assign some sort of id or something to every individual resource. (im not a code nerd, but seems logical).

Like, if i have 15 piwi feathers, i put 10 on market. Someone undercuts, and i remove them. Then i go to put 10 up, what if only 5/10 of those had been the feathers previously listed on the sellroom? If an individual id wasn't attached to every singular resource in the game, there is literally no way to do what you want.

 

2. If there was a time limit between putting still in the market, it would cause huge spike increases. + people would have to just log their alts to put shit on sellrooms. If you limit the flow of resources, you're basically putting in a quota which is going to set prices pretty high as demand will be limited. You may get more for your shitty runes, but you'll also have to pay an increased price on absolutely every other thing in the game. Then you have mega inflation and kamas becomes worthless.

 

3. IF you were to limit the prices, like say you aren't allowed to price within 1 kamas of something, they'd just undercut by larger values, like 100kamas, or 1000 kamas. 

 

You literally want to fix something that works perfectly fine. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by ReaperSurm

[winged-one 739]

You didn't get what i am talking about.

[ReaperSurm 840]

2 minutes ago, winged-one said:

You didn't get what i am talking about.

I did. Read the second half

 

All boils down to being butthurt/crybaby 

Edited March 6, 2018 by ReaperSurm

[winged-one 739]

16 minutes ago, ReaperSurm said:

All boils down to being butthurt/crybaby 

 

not necessary to provoke.

 

22 minutes ago, ReaperSurm said:

 

ALSO not to mention your idea is basically impossible to implement. 

1. You'd literally have to assign some sort of id or something to every individual resource. (im not a code nerd, but seems logical).

Like, if i have 15 piwi feathers, i put 10 on market. Someone undercuts, and i remove them. Then i go to put 10 up, what if only 5/10 of those had been the feathers previously listed on the sellroom? If an individual id wasn't attached to every singular resource in the game, there is literally no way to do what you want.

 

2. If there was a time limit between putting still in the market, it would cause huge spike increases. + people would have to just log their alts to put shit on sellrooms. If you limit the flow of resources, you're basically putting in a quota which is going to set prices pretty high as demand will be limited. You may get more for your shitty runes, but you'll also have to pay an increased price on absolutely every other thing in the game. Then you have mega inflation and kamas becomes worthless.

 

3. IF you were to limit the prices, like say you aren't allowed to price within 1 kamas of something, they'd just undercut by larger values, like 100kamas, or 1000 kamas. 

 

You literally want to fix something that works perfectly fine. 

 

I only can think of a solution with a combination of slots within sellrooms and fixed time an "sales order" will run, uncancellable. Of course its partly possible to bypass this with alts but this can get very annoying at some point.

 

Until then we just have a fight about who is 1st at relisting. (you got the point that for some people its just no matter at what rate you sell an item just because you got amounts of items you literaly aren't able to sell the "normal" way?)  

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by winged-one

[Quadro 1983]

i dont think it would be fair;

 

so for example u wanna sell "item X" for Y kamas so u put it in market for Y and patiently w8ing for it to be sold;

but then in Z days a random mofo (like me) also wants to sell X for Y kamas;

and some1 else buys his (or my) X instantly while u have w8ed for Z days and still sold nothing;

 

just cuz of a lucky randomising "a random mofo" sold X w/o w8ing while u wasted Z days for nothing;

 

would that be fair? how is that helping the economy?

actually it doesn't improve or change the economy any bit but it would give "a random mofo" a slight time advantage over u

[Happida 444]

I think the original suggestion's intention is to decrease the need for people to frequently adjust prices. Since the newest items at the same price are put at the end of the queue, people are encouraged to lower prices to put them at the front, and the older sellers who notice it will do the same, continuing the cycle. By randomizing items in the stack, maybe people will be more likely to set the current price instead of lower. Arguably this just means the item is too common and shouldn't be priced that high to begin with, but sometimes, the process of checking and adjusting prices is more annoying than the lost profit.

 

Maybe the game can make it easier to for sellers to adjust prices in response to market change instead. When we log in, we already get a notification of items that were sold or returned to bank. I propose In addition, the game could show a list of items we are trying to sell, our prices, and the current cheapest prices, the remaining listed time, and allow us to adjust the price right in that window. This window would be accessible through a button at any time and not just at log in.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Happida

[ReaperSurm 840]

But if you do as you had mentioned above, and actually randomize the listings, all it means is that those who have a larger supply (or can mass-produce items) will have a significantly higher chance of having their item/resource bought. All this means is you give a greater advantage to those that can farm the shit out of stuff. Which makes it even harder for solo players to stand a chance. Take nidas jewels for example. If i wanted to sell 10 nidas jewels, and tried to compete against someone who farms that shit for exp, who can put like 2k jewels for sale, at the same price. All it does is lul the person with fewer jewels into thinking they have a better shot at selling their resource if they put it at the same price. So i'd have a 1/201 chance of selling my stack of 10 jewels (but i may guess this is 1/10, or 1/5 etc) opposed to being first in the que. So why not just become 1/1 with a 100% certainty (at least upon first listing) and endure a 1 kamas loss?

 

In addition, the fee system stops people with obscene amount of resources from undercutting often. Imagine taking out 2k nidas jewels, then relisting. While it may be exactly the same price, in terms of the person with 10 jewels, I can guarantee that there is a larger time investment.

 

I also forgot what the market fee was, so for the sake of simplicity, assume its 2%. If you were to put your piwi feather on the market for 1000k, and paid a market fee of 20kamas, you'd get 980 kamas in profit. If you remove the listing, and re-list, you reduce your profit by the price reduction + fee. So this may be 20 kamas still. Now you have a net profit of 960kamas. Where as initially listing the item for 980 would yield the exact same net profit (980-19.6 = 960kamas). As mentioned above, you can't really compete with a price war, constantly undercutting profits just fucks everyone. And if you remove an item and price 1 kamas lower, you're legit stupid. The only people that should be pricing 1 kamas lower are those that are; 1. 100% sure their resource is in high demand, and will thus sell, or 2. putting their item up for the first time, with no intention of removing it (aka those listing in masses). Obviously if piwi feathers start selling for 600kamas, then sure, i'd re-list. But unless it drops under like 900 kamas, there is really no point (assuming that there is a demand ofc). 

 

So yeah. Winged is bitching because he thinks the market is unfair, and he wants freebies. That is just reinforced by the fact that even if his own idea was implemented, it would actually worsen his chances of selling resources significantly. That combined with: "

I am forced to relist all the time and i want ankama to take away that possibilty of selling items. =)" ~~ again, someone with a huge stockpile won't suffer AT ALL from this, because they'll just list like 200 of their 2000 jewels, where as little old wing would be forced to wait X time until he can remove and relist his 10 jewels. All in the meanwhile, there are 200 other jewels now priced lower with NO COMPETITION. Please tell me how that would be fair, on anyone. 

 

Having a box that shows all items listed etc sounds useful tbh, mostly just because you'd be able to access all the markets from the same place. That being said, it wouldn't speed up or make the process of adjusting listings much faster. Not to mention giving everyone easy access to the markets may speed-up the rate at which individuals undercut prices. 

[The_Golden_One 109]

I don't understand why the use of toxicity and provocation going on in this thread. It really serves no purpose whatsoever.

 

OP's first point was addressed to already quite well by Reaper. As to the second point (aka "There should also be a fixed time until you can relist items at lower prices"), I disagree. People will just log in alts to sell their shit, even if they couldn't, it wouldn't solve anything. It would just delay the process of undercutting, if anything.

 

As a suggestion I'd say don't place something for sale and remove it once you see that someone's undercutting you by 1< kamas. Leave it there, it well sell eventually (if the forces of demand/supply are roughly equal). If people undercut said item by a hefty amount (in proportion to sale price), then the item didn't 'deserve' the price you put it up for to begin with.

 

Also, don't mass-stock items on the market, that's just begging for your stuff to get undercut. Place a batch and wait. If they don't sell, undercut either your own or other people's price and wait. If they don't sell, then that 'money-making' process isn't viable to begin with.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by The_Golden_One