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ErisenTheGod

Timeless - goult scam

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Emil asked me at the time if I was screenshotting it which seemed weird ... No ? I'm gonna be getting it back tomorrow... What a little smartass. Ah , I hate this thing called trust. I trusted him so I didn't require the proof, not like the pics would get me the item back which I also sorta knew... If he was gonna scam us it was gonna happen .. I can provide a list which doesnt do the justice of a screen but 

-Cloudy Dofus

-Dolmanax

-MP Hairsh Band

-AP Bearb Wedding Ring

-3 Crit Res MP Bearb band

-Gein's Hat

-Flinty Daggers

-Baleenaboots

-Belteen

-440 Vit Hommlett

-Water/Air Scarador

 

Well GG Emil I guess you're now the newest rich guy on the block it seriously wasn't a pleasure

-Leme

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i think i vomited a lil bit...

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3 hours ago, Timeless said:

I had two options:

1. Give stuff back and just quit Dofus. My "good attitude" wouldn't affect me in any way whatsoever after quitting and I'd just move on with life.

2. Just keep playing with other's gear and be hated. Once I quit, it doesn't affect me just like it wouldn't if I were to give it back and I move on with life. I'm not the type to stay forever friends with random gamers found on an online game, that's taking a game a too far if you ask me.

 

Nothing personal against anyone, It's just a purely tactical thing to do for my own good (given the two options). 

 

P.S. Why would you even worry about me playing in Goultarminator? Thomas has already said countless times pre-scam that he wouldn't have let me play.

 

I haven't been logging Rushu much since most of my friends quit and then I unsubscribed to the Rushu Village Zaap Drama Weekly magazine so I haven't kept up with that either kek. Although I heard about your Vulbis gambling fiasco or whatever, I always had respect for you as a player - one who can still manage to outclass an opponent who may be geared in the newest shit while playing in suboptimal gear himself.

 

I think you're wrong about these options, though. Sure, to some befriending random weebs on the internet might be taking it too far. But I think with your potential, you could have easily had a genuine "good attitude" and made something out of it. This is a MMO, where interacting with other people is the point of the game. You help someone else and they help you, that's what friends do. If you asked for help or something - I'm sure you had friends in high places - you could have gotten dungeons or whatever completed to make the gear you desire. And in return you could help them later, however that could have been. I mean of all the glory I hear about Rushu, I'm sure there are enough good PvMers that wouldn't have minded to help you PvM (or whatever it is your situation drove you to make this rash decision). With this being said, you could have made your very own gear, instead of taking away from people who earned it themselves.

 

Anyway, I don't know if any of what I said will help this situation or if I just triggered everyone more but please note that even if this action does not necessarily affect you "irl" this level of grime hurt others who invested real time in a game they enjoy. I think a lot of people in here really like you otherwise they would not have given you a second chance. You should really return the gear and try to make amends for this. Maybe in the future you can get help to get what you wanted as I mentioned above.

 

Good luck to you and all the homies that unfortunately had to take one for the team

Edited by Casino-Royal

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3 hours ago, ErisenTheGod said:

Emil you still dont get it ... if u would just gave back the items what u borrowed after goult backup and told me or some others that u wanna come back to game i wouldnt have any problem borrowing u 200m or some items and im sure u would find others who would give u items and you could restore your reputation .. now u are fucked for entire dofus career

wait dofus is a career xD?  

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1 hour ago, greninja said:

wait dofus is a career xD?  

Yes, it is XDDD

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inb4 "i just wanted to see who my real friends were" defense

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It’s ok Light-memer still has his kammas

(unless girt pulls a timeless on me  hhh jkjkjk dont do it :x)

 

troll222.png


but i do feel bad for Wizzyzor and Lemepos though

Edited by light

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6 hours ago, bobeur said:

 

Also, I'm gonna go ahead and assume that the people who lent him the gear considered him a close friend, seeing as I would only lend out stuff in these volumes to my bff's in Eve. Personally I cbf about Dofus, but I would be mad if one of my friends would betray me like this, regardless of the losses.

Waw now im super offended!!! :P

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Cmon this guy already scammed before and has never been a Good player, just because he won a few goult battles and a lot of people knew him but he actually has always been a little piece of trash :P

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12 minutes ago, XOTurner said:

Cmon this guy already scammed before and has never been a Good player, just because he won a few goult battles and a lot of people knew him but he actually has always been a little piece of trash :P

Nah the sad part is that he actually was good player and still is .. the way he mastered xelor takes time, it is not some sadi shit where u plant trees or eni where u spam unbe and dmg .. its hard class to learn. We all know that he did it before but me personaly i would help him get back into a game even if i wasnt such a friend with him only because i admired the way he played xel.

 

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4 minutes ago, ErisenTheGod said:

Nah the sad part is that he actually was good player and still is .. the way he mastered xelor takes time, it is not some sadi shit where u plant trees or eni where u spam unbe and dmg .. its hard class to learn. We all know that he did it before but me personaly i would help him get back into a game even if i wasnt such a friend with him only because i admired the way he played xel.

 

well this gives reason not to lend gear to goult players, if there so good they should be earning and maging the gear on thier own , i myself am tired of hearing from a certain sacrier o im to op im to op so many ppl trust me with kamas and gear  ( bragging) *cough* phexi but ya hes still good he scammed meh get over it imo 2bk is gone for most ppl , well welcome to reality its a game and always will be and tbh this thread shudnt be this long he scammed , ya  come on guys we know let him be with his 2bk o pardon ur 2bk not like ull be getting it back from him in the first place i myself am not a goult player but he scammed a vulbis but you still chose to trust him your choice no one elses maybe now ull learn not to share gear with other ppl in a game no matter how long you know them for , personally thank goodness i was never scammed was friends with him but after this not like im going to be giving ANYONE and i mean ANYONE gear goult players or otherwise , i advise you all not to do the same sure they need gear for goult if there this good in th efirst place let them earn it make it themselves and not just be given it because theyre a  little good at pvp ~~~~~~~eragon

Edited by greninja
needed to extend

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its not like the vulbis scam was 15 years ago.

another mistake that contributed in this italian job is the fact that people still spoke to him after the vulbis scam, something which i will never understand. all i keep hearing is "stockon was a piece of shit anyway", honestly i don't care if the guy was, nobody deserves to be taken advantage of, once u cross that line its fucking over.

 

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Lame.

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Not sure if anyone is aware of the legal ramifications, here, but many years ago I posted Reasons for Judgment on our guild forum -- info about a case in Europe that went to court in 2007, where the penalty granted to two 15 year old boys for the theft of virtual property was given 144 hours of community service.

 

The value of the items stolen was much less than that of the items that have been stolen in this situation. 

 

One of the perpetrators appealed to Supreme Court, but the conviction was upheld, which means the precedent for going to court over this type of issue is solid (Appeals Court is the highest court in each country, and becomes the precedent for future cases).  Article about the Supreme Court Appeal (Netherlands):

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/9053870/Online-game-theft-earns-real-world-conviction.html

 

http://www.virtualpolicy.net/runescape-theft-dutch-supreme-court-decision.html

 

Five cases where the thieves went to prison (China):

 

"The court reasoned that virtual property had value and was controllable despite its intangible nature, so it could be the objective of the crime of theft. Zhang was sentenced to a year imprisonment with two year suspension of sentence and a fine of 5,000 RMB."

 

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0d26ced1-ebd8-4e32-bf83-061a831d64a6

 

 

In some of the cases world-wide, the perpetrator is given the option of returning the goods with a minor penalty (rl community service) + criminal record, or facing more serious penalties (fines, rl incarceration, etc. + criminal record).  Some of the games (that I saw as I glanced through the list) have had rulings made (regarding cybercrime) are: Runescape, Habbo Hotel, and Diablo.  The max penalty I saw while glancing over rulings was 5 years imprisonment.

 

All of the above criminal cases involve one victim.  I believe that any consecutive civil proceedings that seek additional financial compensation (additional fines to the original fines handed out in criminal court -- these fines are to act as a future deterrent, so the behavior isn't repeated by the perpetrator -- also known as punitive damages) on top of the restoration of items and criminal consequences can involve more than one victim?  (Not sure how the legal system works in Europe).

 

In this case involving Emil, there are many screenshots of him admitting he has stolen the items from people that will be admissible as "Exhibits", plus screenshots of the item transfers themselves, as well as statements from the many people that were scammed. 

 

Emil, I know that you don't seem to think that gaming and rl are connected, but there can be serious rl penalties for what you are doing.  If you haven't learned properly about "cause and effect' by now (you are 16 years old now?), it's best that we help you learn it while you are still young, since penalties for theft (online and irl) do increase when you become an adult -- I'd prefer you get 144 hours community service now, than you get 3 years in prison in a few years from now for the same type of behavior.  If you return the items, then the problem is solved, and there is no need for anyone to pursue the theft issue further.

 

In the meantime, if Emil decides not to return the items, I can help draw up some Affidavits for court with people's statements and attached "Exhibits" (basically your screenshots of your items, etc.) if people want to pursue it, provided there is someone available to translate.  Also, an estimate of the value of rl $ the items are worth would be helpful -- if you guys want to pursue it in court, we'll also factor in the vulbiss in addition to the items stolen in this latest scam.  I'm sure there are enough professionals who play this game, that getting things done and filed in court wouldn't take a whole lot of effort.  And ofc it will take no effort at all to send everyone's statement to the cybercrime division where Emil lives. 

 

Anyway, just some thoughts -- sorry they're kinda jumbled together (e.g., criminal and civil legal issues are different) -- I can break the steps/explanation down if anyone wants me to explain more clearly.  You guys let me know how you'd like to proceed, once Emil has made a decision on how he would like to act in light of possible rl consequences he may have to face.  If he returns the items, please make sure you post.

 

Also, keep in mind that whatever happens in this case could send a clear message to others who attempt to scam on our server.

 

 

 

 

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Erisen why you do not post all conversation.. You only post this because Timeless would not sell you Teigns scammed Inky for a cheap price before you realise he had scammed you also.. 

 

1469055372_20160720_235646.jpg

Edited by Free Bowisse

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anjulica4president

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4 minutes ago, Free Bowisse said:

Erisen why you do not post all conversation.. You only post this because Timeless would not sell you Teigns scammed Inky for a cheap price before you realise he had scammed you also.. 

 

nah he gave me fair price of 180m i refused, i bought other items tho cuz thats what i do to make kamas ? its irelevant for this conversation dont you think ? to discuss my interesets and investments 

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From what I've seen just from the screenshots here, and taking into consideration leme's items, you're looking at around 800m~+. 1M = 1.2/1.3 euro (Information taken from many vendor sites) if you wish to convert through Ogrine prices, you could argue that some days 1M = 1.8/2 euro. From what I've heard we're looking at a scam of 2BK-3BK whether this rumour is with the addition of stockton's vulbis or not who knows. 2BK through kamas vendor sites is a price of nearly 2400/2600 Euro's, or if you wish to argue that Ogrine prices should be taken into consideration at their lowest price, you could be looking at 3600-4000 euro's. 

 

Whether you want to believe it or not, virtual currency does have a real life value. Virtual currency also takes time and effort to gain, much like your real life currency. Personally I'd love this to go to court, I'd like to think we have enough evidence and It's clear Emil needs a life lesson as he obviously wasn't spanked enough as a child.

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just contact izmar with a well worded letter explaining everything with screenshots and details, im sure they can work something out.

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Yeah Im sad how far this been drag, he is giving you a clear proof that he scammed all and you guys have screens + if you dont ban him quick enough he will be able to sell all these kamas for EUROS, idk how do ban works, on IP or accounts but yeah he should be banned fast enough, I do love how you post stuff here and actually he can do it again, become good on a class if he can manage that again, gain your shitty trust and scam you again, I know it is a game and shouldn't be worried about some shitty kamas, but its that people waste their time on a game and then get ditched, so its more of a princip not that we dont have lives.

 

He is loling at you right now because he knows no actions further than this will not be taken. :)

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last picture bois this hurts the most as this person isnt so fortunate as others and this scam made him quit the game 

gg

sUQLQiz.png

[01:14] from Zobnoxious: MP wedding ring range tf boots/pawl and summon kongoku, all other items well maged

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24 minutes ago, ErisenTheGod said:

last picture bois this hurts the most as this person isnt so fortunate as others and this scam made him quit the game 

gg

sUQLQiz.png

[01:14] from Zobnoxious: MP wedding ring range tf boots/pawl and summon kongoku, all other items well maged

 

see this is what i dont get the mother fucker has a queen of thieves helm on already and he gives him another? what the actual fuck. do people not have a brain??

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@anjulica

Quote

It said he and another youth beat and kicked the boy and threatened him with a knife until he logged into RuneScape and dropped the objects in 2007.

What you're referring to is a completely different scenario to that in place here. Those who lost out voluntarily traded items across to Timeless in an official manner and were in no way forced or pressured to do so. Even from Ankama's point of view I don't see how any actual rules were broken or how Timeless could be punished for them. Perhaps as a matter of good will items could be returned, but seeing as people actually being hacked are seldom helped that too seems unlikely. Still worth speaking with Izmar or someone similar though.

 

The idea of a criminal case is absurd though, seriously. I'm in no way saying Timeless is in the right, he made a totally scumbag move. Just don't waste your time trying to pursue something legally and in the process giving false hope to those who lost out. 

 

Also on that note, the account Timeless will be banned on Imps Village until further notice. Obviously we don't allow scammers here. If you need further correspondence with him it'll have to take place elsewhere. 

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4 minutes ago, Kikn said:

@anjulica

What you're referring to is a completely different scenario to that in place here. Those who lost out voluntarily traded items across to Timeless in an official manner and were in no way forced or pressured to do so. Even from Ankama's point of view I don't see how any actual rules were broken or how Timeless could be punished for them. Perhaps as a matter of good will items could be returned, but seeing as people actually being hacked are seldom helped that too seems unlikely. Still worth speaking with Izmar or someone similar though.

 

The idea of a criminal case is absurd though, seriously. I'm in no way saying Timeless is in the right, he made a totally scumbag move. Just don't waste your time trying to pursue something legally and in the process giving false hope to those who lost out. 

 

Also on that note, the account Timeless will be banned on Imps Village until further notice. Obviously we don't allow scammers here. If you need further correspondence with him it'll have to take place elsewhere. 

 

The point is that there is now a legal precedent for virtual theft, regardless of how it's done.  Some of the cases tried include buying/selling of accounts and logging them to steal gear later, some involve "borrowing" and then disposing of the items, others involve phishing sites to gain passwords, others involve hacking, others like the one above involve rl pressure.  The case you quoted above was the one that set the precedent for the later cases that deems "virtual theft" to be equivalent with "rl theft", so it's the most famous case.

 

Here is a quote from "Law and Order in Virtual Worlds":

 

f4248018cc508abbe4d585d21bebccdb.png

 

Erisen posted screenshots of Timeless admitting that he purposely scammed by "borrowing property with the purpose of disposing" -- those are the shots that have bearing.

 

There is no promise of returned items or compensation if it does go further -- which is why I'm suggesting that Timeless return the items.  Otherwise, if it goes further, then it will become a lose/lose situation -- rl consequences for Timeless, and most likely, lost gear for everyone else.

 

Personally, I want to see everyone get their items back, so am willing to put pressure on Timeless to return people's gear.  Perhaps his parents receiving a Notice of Proceeding would be adequate enough to compel him to return the items, regardless of what happens (or doesn't happen) after that.

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1 hour ago, Tezar said:

From what I've seen just from the screenshots here, and taking into consideration leme's items, you're looking at around 800m~+. 1M = 1.2/1.3 euro (Information taken from many vendor sites) if you wish to convert through Ogrine prices, you could argue that some days 1M = 1.8/2 euro. From what I've heard we're looking at a scam of 2BK-3BK whether this rumour is with the addition of stockton's vulbis or not who knows. 2BK through kamas vendor sites is a price of nearly 2400/2600 Euro's, or if you wish to argue that Ogrine prices should be taken into consideration at their lowest price, you could be looking at 3600-4000 euro's

Well... that's a fairly serious amount of cash...

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