(Work in progress) idol score calculator

[Happida 437]

http://dofusidols.info/

Currently you can select 6 idols to see their combined score and synergies.
You can type idol names and press Enter, but if you make a typo, there's a bug that might make the page stop working.
I already have data to do things like limiting to non-group idols and idols which support certain dungeons, or even automatically generate idol combinations, but I still need to make the user interface for these features.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Happida

[Happida 437]

OK I'm looking for a little help to make this easier to use.

I would like to break the idols down to categories to make it easier to browse and find them. I know there are idols that give enemies MP, increase their damage, heal them, or reflect damage to players, etc. I only have a tiny collection of idols and I'm not familiar with many of them, so I think there are other people here far more qualified to create categories. Would anyone like to help?

Here are the names of the idols:

Nyan

Ougaa

Proxima

Corrode

Critus

Aroumb

Muta

Djim

Nekineko

Dakid

Penitent

Hoskar

Korria

Vaude

Binar

Ultram

Nahuatl

(the following also have "minor", "major" and "great" variants)

Oaf

Cafra

Dynamo

Horiz

Sak

Yosh

Zaihn

Dagob

Nyoro

Behelit

Kyoub

Domo

Petunia

Hulhu

Pikmi

Teleb

Boble

Payo

Or is it not that useful to have such categories, and should I just list the idols in alphabetical order (ignoring "minor", "major", "great")?

Of course, other suggestions and contributions are welcome.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Happida

[Scour 987]

I love this, thanks so much! :D

I still haven't found anything that beats 521. xD

[Ala 2960]

I think the categories are a good idea, because when selecting an idol setup for a more difficult dungeon, thinking in categories is basically how you approach it - e.g. this is a ranged fight, so I can use negative melee effects. Or, this one allows MP idols because everything can reach me anyway.

Although finding a sensible categorization seems harder. For instance, there are melee effects (Proxima, Ougaa, Oaf,...) but at the same time, Oaf would also count as damage increase idol. Multiple categories for the same thing are possible or not? I'm not sure how you imagine it.

I also found a problem with the calculator. It doesn't take into account the synergies of Minor idols... but when comparing it, I also realized that they are often different from those of the Great idols (which the table from tofus.fr generally lists). For example, Minor Behelit has 1.18 with Nekineko and Dakid, whereas Great Behelit has 1.09 with them.

(So first order of business will probably be that I actually try out all synergies.)

[Happida 437]

I think the categories are a good idea, because when selecting an idol setup for a more difficult dungeon, thinking in categories is basically how you approach it - e.g. this is a ranged fight, so I can use negative melee effects. Or, this one allows MP idols because everything can reach me anyway.

Although finding a sensible categorization seems harder. For instance, there are melee effects (Proxima, Ougaa, Oaf,...) but at the same time, Oaf would also count as damage increase idol. Multiple categories for the same thing are possible or not? I'm not sure how you imagine it.

To deal with overlapping categories, I could add buttons to filter out idols belonging to each category.

I also found a problem with the calculator. It doesn't take into account the synergies of Minor idols... but when comparing it, I also realized that they are often different from those of the Great idols (which the table from tofus.fr generally lists). For example, Minor Behelit has 1.18 with Nekineko and Dakid, whereas Great Behelit has 1.09 with them.

(So first order of business will probably be that I actually try out all synergies.)

Yeah, tofus.fr doesn't list synergies for Major (except Major+Great of the same idol) and lower grade idols, and it's hard to find a pattern in these values as you noticed.

[Happida 437]

For now the calculator will make guesses for unknown synergies, by just copying the "great" values. It will show a notice if this happens. If anyone could help figure out formulas to accurately derive minor+major, minor+minor, minor+regular etc synergy values based on great+great values, that would be a huge help. Not all idol families will follow the same formula.

[Ala 2960]

Nah, there's no pattern to it, sometimes the synergies increase from minor to great, sometimes decrease, sometimes not even that. Sometimes minor has no (negative) synergies at all, but the other sizes do. It's bizarre to say the least.

I made a new table that includes (almost) all of them, which I actually tried out ingame: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13WlzFYbmDQpCnnHYut6K5u77KmYf4Smgn82ckTdHWi0/edit?usp=sharing

(I'm warning you, it's a lot less readable than the overview of tofus.fr, it's just to grab the numbers for the calculator.)

The only one that has a few question marks is the Great Teleb because I lent it to someone (looking at you, Toppy, you scamlord ;)), I can add those later... or someone else could check them (only Great Teleb+Nekineko/all Kyoub/all Hulhu).

Critus, Djim, Vood, Rocha(s), Zaihn(s), Domo(s) have no synergies whatsoever, so they're not on the table.

edit: Oh yes, Vaude is called Vood in English, and (Minor/Major/Great) Cafra is Rocha.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ala

[Happida 437]

Nah, there's no pattern to it, sometimes the synergies increase from minor to great, sometimes decrease, sometimes not even that. Sometimes minor has no (negative) synergies at all, but the other sizes do. It's bizarre to say the least.

I made a new table that includes (almost) all of them, which I actually tried out ingame: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13WlzFYbmDQpCnnHYut6K5u77KmYf4Smgn82ckTdHWi0/edit?usp=sharing

(I'm warning you, it's a lot less readable than the overview of tofus.fr, it's just to grab the numbers for the calculator.)

The only one that has a few question marks is the Great Teleb because I lent it to someone (looking at you, Toppy, you scamlord ;)), I can add those later... or someone else could check them (only Great Teleb+Nekineko/all Kyoub/all Hulhu).

Critus, Djim, Vood, Rocha(s), Zaihn(s), Domo(s) have no synergies whatsoever, so they're not on the table.

edit: Oh yes, Vaude is called Vood in English, and (Minor/Major/Great) Cafra is Rocha.

Thanks a lot for the help! I've added the synergies from your spreadsheet. I think a few teleb+dynamo synergies are missing too. Tofus.fr lists Great Teleb + Great Dynamo: 1.17, so I assume there are synergies between other grades of these two, but I haven't checked in game.

[Ala 2960]

Ah true, I added that as far as possible (still missing the Great Teleb).

[Happida 437]

Could you also add these?

Minor Dagob + (Dagob, Major Dagob, Great Dagob)

Minor Hulhu + (Hulhu, Major Hulhu, Great Hulhu)

[Ala 2960]

They have no synergies (which I personally think is a bug/oversight, but that's how it is at the moment).

[Scour 987]

OK I'm looking for a little help to make this easier to use.

I would like to break the idols down to categories to make it easier to browse and find them.

Here's my attempt at dividing Idols into categories. I will admit, as far as the MP bonuses being temporary, TOTALLY GUESSING. I would appreciate criticism and advice heavily. :)

Damage altering:

Alters your damage:

Kyoub

Alters enemies' damage:

At range:

Horiz

In CC:

Oaf

Overall:

Dakid

Boble

Behelit

Dagob

Yosh

Sak

Djim

Alters damage you take:

Rocha

Teleb

Damage dealing:

Vood

Petunia

Pikmi

Nyoro

Zaihn

MP granting:

Grants MP forever:

Dynamo

Nekineko

Grants MP temporarily:

Hulhu

Domo

Max HP altering:

Binar

Nyan

Hoskar

Ougaa

Muta

Position altering:

Attracts globally:

Payo

Attracts linear/diagonal only:

Dakid

Unconventional effects:

Ultram

Korria

Penitent

Corrode

Djim

Critus

Aroumb

Nahuatl

Proxima

Effect applies within certain range of character:

Effect applies in CC only:

Proxima

Oaf

Ougaa

Effect applies within circle around character(s):

Ally:

Petunia

Domo

Enemy:

Pikmi

Teleb

Rocha

Effect applies in reverse circle around character(s):

Zaihn

Kyoub

Yosh

Payo

Muta

Effect applies globally:

Vood

Hoskar

Ultram

Korria

Aroumb

Dakid

Binar

Edited July 12, 2015 by Scour

[Extreal 1813]

Ala you nerd, if you need to try any log my main for any you haven't got (or even better harass xu because the word lazy doesn't even begin to describe her right now XDDDDDDDDDDDDD)

[Ala 2960]

Nerd yourself! :( (Why didn't you have a Nekineko by the way?)

But in other words, Teleb numbers are complete now too.

[Extreal 1813]

Nerd yourself! :( (Why didn't you have a Nekineko by the way?)

But in other words, Teleb numbers are complete now too.

Because I have to contend with someone who enjoys having chars in total shambles, thus never putting things back....

[Gato-Gato 408]

Because I have to contend with someone who enjoys having chars in total shambles, thus never putting things back....

go fuck a duck!

also alalalalalalaa just pm on skype or w/e

neki shit I keep on mask coz part of F2 idol combo xD

[Gaspar 299]

As usual, Pirate doing a great job for the dofus community! :)

A few suggestions that I'm sure us lazy players would love:

• Display the XP / Loot bonus along with the scores. (I think they're dependent on Wisdom and Prospecting so it would require players to input their wisdom and prospecting)
  • I've noticed that the higher the wisdom, the better the XP bonus is.
  • The lower the prospecting, the higher the loot bonus (idk why but seems that way...)
• The most awesome thing would be being able to input the desired score, xp bonus or loot bonus and having the tool spit out the idol options :D (though I admit it's easier said than done xD)

[Ala 2960]

Hmm, the XP/loot bonus seems less trivial to work out. And unfortunately Ankama also added another factor which is level difference with the mob in question, so even inputting wis and pp would only give you the max possible value.

Also, in my experience higher wisdom means lower XP bonus (also to discourage leeching.

[Gaspar 299]

Hmm, the XP/loot bonus seems less trivial to work out. And unfortunately Ankama also added another factor which is level difference with the mob in question, so even inputting wis and pp would only give you the max possible value.

Also, in my experience higher wisdom means lower XP bonus (also to discourage leeching.

Hm yes, you're probably right. And I forgot about the level difference thing, sounds complicated.

I have mostly felt sad that my hax 500+ PP set combined with a hax combo of idols only yields like 150% loot bonus where as with a normal set it goes well beyond that. Haven't worried much about wisdom or XP bonus yet...

As if playing a strength character in 500+ pure PP set with Muta+Ougaa along with 4 other idols wasn't hard enough and worthy of epic loot bonuses :(

So now instead I'm using some easier idols that give about 112% loot bonus and I still rock with 500+ PP.

[Happida 437]

I thought the idol bonus was independent of wisdom/pp, something like

(base XP * wisdom bonus + base XP * idol bonus) / level difference penalty = actual XP

XP bonus = actual XP / base XP = (wisdom bonus + idol bonus) / level difference penalty ... or that - 100%?

Anyway for now I'd like to stick with idol-related features and information. I still want to add ways to filter/sort/categorize idols, and an auto idol combo builder.

[Happida 437]

New features:

Display idol scores next to names
When you mouse over one of the chosen idols (in the top row) for over 1 second, all other idols will display their synergy values toward that idol this feature was distracting so I have disabled it for now, but instead:

Display the score increase of adding an idol to the current combination. The list is always sorted with highest score increase first. However always choosing the idol with highest score increase doesn't always lead to the highest combination score.

Let me know if anything doesn't work.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Happida

[Happida 437]

I've added a long waited feature: a way to find the 6-idol combo with the highest possible score. It looks through all possible combinations, which is slow but sure. It will take probably 4-5 hours, and I haven't found the time to leave my computer running for that long yet. If you are curious whether it's possible to beat the current record, and have a good computer that stays on, go ahead.

Probably a more useful feature is to find the best combo or a list of good enough combos, given a chosen list of idols to use. In fact if you type something into the search box, and then click the "Find the best combination" button, you can already find out the best combo with idols whose names contain "d" for example. Next I'll work on more useful ways to filter out and select idols.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Happida

[Ala 2960]

Ah, I started this before leaving my pc on overnight, but turns out that at some point it went into "I only work when someone's looking" mode and is still only at 10% now. Too bad. But I'll leave it running during the day. (Currently 507 is still the best it has found.)

[Happida 437]

Ah, I started this before leaving my pc on overnight, but turns out that at some point it went into "I only work when someone's looking" mode and is still only at 10% now. Too bad. But I'll leave it running during the day. (Currently 507 is still the best it has found.)

Thanks, and I had the same problem. The estimated time remaining fluctuated a lot at the beginning, and stabilized to around 5 hours, so I thought that was accurate. But a night later it's only at 23.5%, best score found still 507, and estimated 12 hours remaining.

It tries the idols with higher scores first, and the best known combo has some idols that are pretty far down the list, so it won't find it until late in the process.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Happida

[Scour 987]

Now that we can find it mathematically, I'm like 99% certain that the highest score is gonna be Dakid, Aroumb, Muta, Ougaa, Hoskar, and Ultram at 521 - courtesy of Ala. xD

Although Aroumb, Muta, Ougaa, Hoskar, Ultram, and Binar is 511. P:

Edited July 18, 2015 by Scour