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[Changelog] 2.27: The Web of Defeat

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Can anyone show me some proof of ankama stating future changes to Osa/Eni? Thanks.

Google could for example?

cba to figure out how to link to a specific post but this for example

http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthread.php?t=1280519

Post by radigan. He refers to what lichen said in the video "Eniripsas, Sadidas and Osamodas (that is the order in which he quotes) in their sights for the coming changes."

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Happida i'll give you a good example where the current vuln is much more useful than the upcoming one.

Bounties.

I doubt I could beat some of the F2-F3 bounties when many have 30-40% res to almost everything!

For example The Masked Avenger has 200/25/25/200/25 Resistances.

With the current - res vuln earth/fire/air atleast can be brought into the negative. With the new vuln the actual amount of dmg increase will be ineffectual at best.

And if you were to steal his range he puts 50% resistance to himself for 2 turns! Meaning it would have 250/75/75/250/75

resistances... How good is a dmg increase going to be on that? They need to either nerf the resist on a lot of F2-F3/Divine

bounties and dungeons or figure out a better way then this punch in the gut.

And not everyone is omni. The majority are still in pure builds or hybrid builds. A L199 cant hope to be good as omni until L200.

To force everyone to be omni is a far more ridiculous outrage then this Nerf.

Amey

Edited by Harukage
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lol @ omni pandas. hybrid or mono is the way to go since their spells arent really lacking in anything in terms of range or damage.

Edited by Karalee
  • Like 3

                                  c45f8fe51361533431143e9664612f6a.png8a5c8a68cf3be52e05d2d9d839d7aa6c.png

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Happida i'll give you a good example where the current vuln is much more useful than the upcoming one.

Bounties.

I doubt I could beat some of the F2-F3 bounties when many have 30-40% res to almost everything!

For example The Masked Avenger has 200/25/25/200/25 Resistances.

With the current - res vuln earth/fire/air atleast can be brought into the negative. With the new vuln the actual amount of dmg increase will be ineffectual at best.

And if you were to steal his range he puts 50% resistance to himself for 2 turns! Meaning it would have 250/75/75/250/75

resistances... How good is a dmg increase going to be on that? They need to either nerf the resist on a lot of F2-F3/Divine

bounties and dungeons or figure out a better way then this punch in the gut.

And not everyone is omni. The majority are still in pure builds or hybrid builds. A L199 cant hope to be good as omni until L200.

To force everyone to be omni is a far more ridiculous outrage then this Nerf.

Amey

With twice new vulnerability, no matter the starting resistance, damage will increase by 30-34%. Sure that will be lower compared to the current effect if the starting resistance is high, but as long as 30-34% of the rest of your team's damage is more than what your panda deals with 6AP, it will still be worth using. If high resistance doesn't stop you from using power, poutch, wheel of fortune, weapon skill, etc, it shouldn't stop you from using vulnerability either.

I don't mean you should always use vulnerability. Of course there will be times when it's not worth using, and I'm not denying it's a nerf. So what? There will also be many situations when it's still worth using and better than before. Vulnerability and pandas will still be far from useless.

I'm not saying people are all omni. Just being two element hybrid already lets you only need to deal with negative or near 0 resistance for most monsters. (I know there are counter-examples.) Even a team of all pure builds can distribute firepower so that they don't need to all spend AP on high resistance targets, and like I said before, vulnerability will still help even if not as much.

Edited by Happida
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I am kinda interested in these changes especially the sadida one how it will affect the gameplay for sadidas and such as I have one in my team. I cant get on the beta atm so can anyone fill me in on their thoughts on the new sadida?

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They are a definite improvement. Cha/Int seems to be the way forward in terms of longer range fights and group pvp. Int for solo pvp. For pvm I think str/cha is worthwhile as you're not risking volatile monsters moving out of position with EQ.

I guess everyone will have differing opinions but I think we can all agree us sadis got a definite buff.

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The only thing i hate on updates is that poor fuckers like me are getting wrecked.

Masquerade nerf? I was just planning new sets to be able to beat frig3, now not anymore.

Bosses will hit the crap out of me if i can't 1 turn them, especially now bribery can't help me either (i do have an enu even i wasn't planning to bring him to frig3)

For rich bastards this is np, they hit 10K+ with iop alone.

Jump and vuln nerf: you're right with the arguments that treadfast is a solution to the problem.

however this is only the case if you're rich enough to bring your chars to 1/2 and scroll all attacking spells, otherwise it's useless.

For people like me relying on pure chars until lvl 200 fights will get a lot harder on planning who to attack (let alone not to be able to focus every mob when a want to)

Again: none of these things will prevent me from doing new stuff, only it makes it a lot harder while i'm still suboptimal/pre-200.

Specially because it's not one of the mechanisms, but the combination of nerfs to different widely used things (of which only masquerade was overpowered, and even then in PvM it implied a huge risk in many combats)

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Elegast-199 feca

Eledrunk-199 panda

Futta-Mukka-200 eni

Hot-fortune-200 enu

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To be an omen of dire fate foretold, but the reactions of people "treadfast can save you" has always been a precursor to Ankama balancing equipment into oblivion.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."

--Abraham Lincoln

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  • The characters that are disconnected in some maps of ancient forest Treechnids are not abnormally blocked.

Players can no longer get stuck at the end of Dungeon Skeunk.

The delay to "jump sifflard" has been reduced and the object is again usable combat readiness phase.

An issue laying trap or glyph in some blanks from another trap or glyph has been resolved.

Gorgouille of life points are corrected.

It is now possible to forgemager indestructible objects.

Sadida: The description of the spell "Tree of Life" is corrected.

Sadida: Damage Fire spell "Fire Bush" at level 6 are corrected. (anyone know if that is up or down?)

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The only thing i hate on updates is that poor fuckers like me are getting wrecked.

Masquerade nerf? I was just planning new sets to be able to beat frig3, now not anymore.

Bosses will hit the crap out of me if i can't 1 turn them, especially now bribery can't help me either (i do have an enu even i wasn't planning to bring him to frig3)

For rich bastards this is np, they hit 10K+ with iop alone.

There are people who do dungeons without iop, panda or masq. They're not all rich either. #BadTimeToBrag?

Jump and vuln nerf: you're right with the arguments that treadfast is a solution to the problem.

Treadfast is not the only hybrid set. I have about 5 crits total and am still quite happy with being str/cha hybrid in PvM, and there's still plenty of room for improvement in my set.

Yes you'll need to get some stat and spell point scrolls and better equipment. But remember Celestial Bearbarian is supposed to be a level 199-200 dungeon, and Frigost 3 and newer level 200 dungeons are meant to be much harder than it.

Sadida: Damage Fire spell "Fire Bush" at level 6 are corrected. (anyone know if that is up or down?)

I think it's slightly up, from 13-16 fire 14-17 water to 14-17 both fire and water non-crit. Edited by Happida

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There are people who do dungeons without iop, panda or masq. They're not all rich either. #BadTimeToBrag?

Treadfast is not the only hybrid set. I have about 5 crits total and am still quite happy with being str/cha hybrid in PvM, and there's still plenty of room for improvement in my set.

Yes you'll need to get some stat and spell point scrolls and better equipment. But remember Celestial Bearbarian is supposed to be a level 199-200 dungeon, and Frigost 3 and newer level 200 dungeons are meant to be much harder than it.

I know there are teams without the cookie cutter classes doing the dungeons,

still my point remains: for people who were on the edge of doing the dungeons (and using one or more of the classes mentioned),

the updates puts them back further away from doing them, while ankama tend to make dungs slightly easier as time passes (even though i'm not asking to make things easier, just not harder)

This also holds for already good teams looking to take the next step (queen, vortex, ...) that see their chances go down too now.

As about the treadfast set you're ofc right. I made that comment as an example, as it's an easy set to go omni and always be able to use the lowest res on monsters. There are indeed plenty of other sets and builds that require less or more money/effort and that don't require 1/2 to be effective.

And I think everyone realizes that frig 3 is meant to be much harder then frig 2, but that's not the point here: everything gets harder by this change, because the changes are done on different classes, not on the dungs itself. CB will get a lot harder too. It's just that not many teams on imps didn't beat it yet :)

Edit: not trying to argue with you, what you say also makes sense.

I think all changes are legit, only masquerade should have got nerf to 20 or 25% instead of 35%, not what they did to it now -_-

Edited by elegast

Elegast-199 feca

Eledrunk-199 panda

Futta-Mukka-200 eni

Hot-fortune-200 enu

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There are people who do dungeons without iop, panda or masq. They're not all rich either. #BadTimeToBrag?

Or just bring iop/mask/panda/eni and do it in 10 minutes instead of 30 ?


 

 

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Or just bring iop/mask/panda/eni and do it in 10 minutes instead of 30 ?

I see you understand where the nerfs come from.
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They are a definite improvement. Cha/Int seems to be the way forward in terms of longer range fights and group pvp. Int for solo pvp. For pvm I think str/cha is worthwhile as you're not risking volatile monsters moving out of position with EQ.

I guess everyone will have differing opinions but I think we can all agree us sadis got a definite buff.

Good to hear Chance got buffed My sadida (Rain-forest) is Cha/str and I really like my sadida is the damage increased much at all? and how bout some of the map control is it better or worse in your opinion?

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I really wish the Zenith were on the players side of these issues. You act like there will be no change whatsoever.

How are we supposed to do F3 without vuln and masquerade, without having to spend 200mk on a new set for another blitz char???? Huh???

Because all I see you saying Happida is that the nerfs were warranted. You almost seem happy.

Well guess what. Here's a reality check. They will be killing PvM with these changes and not only that they will also affect the population.

People are giving up their stuff and leaving. LEAVING.

I would be a lot happier if you were communicating this message from we the players instead of blocking it by saying its not that bad.

Amey

P.S To Karalee. I'm omni and loving it.

Edited by Harukage
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Nocturnus Level: 200

Achievement Counter: 10000

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Big thanks to Liann for the art!

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There are people who do dungeons without iop, panda or masq. They're not all rich either. #BadTimeToBrag?

Treadfast is not the only hybrid set. I have about 5 crits total and am still quite happy with being str/cha hybrid in PvM, and there's still plenty of room for improvement in my set.

Yes you'll need to get some stat and spell point scrolls and better equipment. But remember Celestial Bearbarian is supposed to be a level 199-200 dungeon, and Frigost 3 and newer level 200 dungeons are meant to be much harder than it.

I think it's slightly up, from 13-16 fire 14-17 water to 14-17 both fire and water non-crit.

i agree that frigs 3 isnt going to be much of a issue..as you can do it , without the cookie cutter team...harder but still.

Buts when the Duo bosses or Divine dimiension come...you really do need a masq or the Panda.

i remember seeing a team of Rogue/sram/masq/panda/osa take out slyarg/Count.

He used panda to -vul, then timed masquerade right and killed both count and slyarg via bombs.

I highly doubt he could do that now though.


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I really wish the Zenith were on the players side of these issues. You act like there will be no change whatsoever.

How are we supposed to do F3 without vuln and masquerade, without having to spend 200mk on a new set for another blitz char???? Huh???

Because all I see you saying Happida is that the nerfs were warranted. You almost seem happy.

Well guess what. Here's a reality check. They will be killing PvM with these changes and not only that they will also affect the population.

People are giving up their stuff and leaving. LEAVING.

I would be a lot happier if you were communicating this message from we the players instead of blocking it by saying its not that bad.

Amey

P.S To Karalee. I'm omni and loving it.

im not entirely sure this is the truth. Sure some of these changes suck. But i for one do not exactly like the Masqs and dont really use a panda either. Have i done everything in frigost yet? nope. Havent really been trying either. 3/4 of my team are wis characters and yet ive managed to go.. all the way through kolosso and can now go do CB if I wanted. Will i? im not quite sure yet. But seeing as how about 75% of my dmg comes from my level 200 agi sram im pretty sure things will still be downed if not all at once or right away it will still be downed. You forget that there are players who attempt and beat these dungeons at lower levels and worse gear than the 200mk+ per character spenders. sure gear helps but it isnt everything..

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I really wish the Zenith were on the players side of these issues.

Personally, I prefer a game with balanced classes, rather than a game that has "easy route classes" and "other classes". Whether that's on the players' side or not, you decide.
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Good to hear Chance got buffed My sadida (Rain-forest) is Cha/str and I really like my sadida is the damage increased much at all? and how bout some of the map control is it better or worse in your opinion?

The reason cha/int is the way to go isn't the cha buff but the int buff. Cha sadidas are slightly weaker atm. They dropped tear ap to 3 but also lowered the damage. Dolly sacrifice on the other hand is now 4AP and gets one more range and increased damage. That nerfed cha sadidas playstyle (hitting from far and abusing the no los). Cha sadidas got weaker, but now chance is a good secondary element, so Int/cha and str/cha got buffed. Str sadidas got slightly buffed since the soft caps are now 1:1-100, 2:100-200, 3: 200-300 in all elements so it's cheaper to get str to 300 and that lives you more points for cha or/and vit.




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I do not think you can balance classes. And still keep them unique.

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Personally, I prefer a game with balanced classes, rather than a game that has "easy route classes" and "other classes". Whether that's on the players' side or not, you decide.

For pvp its maybe balance but considering pvm its gonna be extremely broke. Without old vuln and masquarade dungs (f5, nidas,qot,vortex) will be extremely hard.

Edited by Tya

 

 

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The reason cha/int is the way to go isn't the cha buff but the int buff. Cha sadidas are slightly weaker atm. They dropped tear ap to 3 but also lowered the damage. Dolly sacrifice on the other hand is now 4AP and gets one more range and increased damage. That nerfed cha sadidas playstyle (hitting from far and abusing the no los). Cha sadidas got weaker, but now chance is a good secondary element, so Int/cha and str/cha got buffed. Str sadidas got slightly buffed since the soft caps are now 1:1-100, 2:100-200, 3: 200-300 in all elements so it's cheaper to get str to 300 and that lives you more points for cha or/and vit.

For me thats a buff. I dont hide behind people alot and spam tear. i only use it when I cant hit anything with dolly or brambles or whatever else. for me I like the change to tear being 3 ap even if it lessens the damage a lil bit. it doesnt change how i play in fact it makes me not eed an 11 ap set for endgame anymore. (which i needed before) now i can cast double tear and dolly in the same turn with a simple 10 ap set

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For pvp its maybe balance but considering pvm its gonna be extremely broke. Without old vuln and masquarade dungs (f5, nidas,qot,vortex) will be extremely hard.

They are supposed to be extremely hard, and the fact that most people do the dungeons with one or two fixed class combinations is a big reason why these nerfs are coming. If they are too hard as a result of the nerfs even after players have had time to adjust, developers will nerf the dungeons, as they have done before.

For me thats a buff. I dont hide behind people alot and spam tear. i only use it when I cant hit anything with dolly or brambles or whatever else. for me I like the change to tear being 3 ap even if it lessens the damage a lil bit. it doesnt change how i play in fact it makes me not eed an 11 ap set for endgame anymore. (which i needed before) now i can cast double tear and dolly in the same turn with a simple 10 ap set

A bonus is that dolly sacrifice is now 2 casts per turn, one cast per target. If you hit two targets in infected state from madoll or paralyzing poison, they'll both get heavily damaged twice. Edited by Happida
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They are supposed to be extremely hard, and the fact that most people do the dungeons with one or two fixed class combinations is a big reason why these nerfs are coming. If they are too hard as a result of the nerfs even after players have had time to adjust, developers will nerf the dungeons, as they have done before.

A bonus is that dolly sacrifice is now 2 casts per turn, one cast per target. If you hit two targets in infected state from madoll or paralyzing poison, they'll both get heavily damaged twice.

another reason Im seeing a buff for chance sadidas and I agree with the dungeon nerfs. I am looking forward to attempting them once I get my team going!

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