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ReaperSurm

Update Imps rules/guidelines?

  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Imps should update their rules and guidelines?

    • Yes
      30
    • No
      10
  2. 2. Have Mod's hindered your imps experience lately?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      29


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In the last few weeks, imps has had a surge in moderators. Granted, they are always handy to keep things under control, but I personally feel as if they have almost overstepped their responsibilities and are abusing their power.

For starters, threatening a user: "Please include prices or I will remove this thread." Appose to "Could you please include a prices for your items." I'm not sure whether you've ever done business in the real world or not, but you certainly don't address customers like this.

I reviewed the Marketplace guidelines:

---

Guidelines

  • Always make sure you're using the correct server forum and category. (i.e., Rushu -> Mid Level Equipment)
  • Provide your in-game name in your post.
  • Provide a general time of play, if possible, so customers can better contact you.
  • Be sure to mark your thread title correctly. Refer to the list below.
  • Always include a sale price or an offering price. Do not just say, "I'll buy it". Say how much you're selling the item for, or how much you're willing to spend on an item.

There have been ALOT of mod posts forcing individuals to put prices on their items, mistaking it for law, not a Guidline. Yet if it's a rule, they why aren't they asking players to put down their playtimes or IG names. They're simply being too selective.

  • Always make sure you're using the correct server forum and category. (i.e., Rushu -> Mid Level Equipment)

Note the wording, "Correct Server" not, "Your Server." Back in 2007 (When xfering wasn't possible?) this makes perfect sense, don't post in the wrong server as you can't get that item there anyway. However, now that xfering is possible, it makes sense to be able to post in other servers, after all that is one of the servers you'd like to sell your item.

"So the correct procedure would be to post this in the Rosal sub-forum, and indicate in that topic that there is negotiation possibilities to move items to Rushu.. the general consensus is that items listed here are on the server at the time of posting.. or that they will 100% be there within a given period." --- not to mention there is no mention of this "procedure" and after more than a years on imps, i certainly haven't noticed this so called "consensus".

  • Provide your in-game name in your post.
  • Provide a general time of play, if possible, so customers can better contact you.
  • Be sure to mark your thread title correctly. Refer to the list below.

Perfect examples of a guideline.

  • Always include a sale price or an offering price. Do not just say, "I'll buy it". Say how much you're selling the item for, or how much you're willing to spend on an item.

This one is one of the other ones mods are constantly hammering down on. Granted, the "Say how much you're selling the item for" is some pretty solid advice. However, how much one spends on an item (not including anything with stable stats [dofuses, souls etc]) largely depends upon its stats. I fail to see the necessity to have an arbitrary value places on something you can't see. When prices differ more than a few mks, it becomes pointless to add a value. Might as well say 1kamas-1billionkamas. Would you put a fixed price you're willing to pay on a car before you see it? You might argue that you can change the prices later once you see the item, but then what's the point of putting one in the first place. Besides, if they really wanted to know a price range, a prospective buyer/seller would ask.

---

Other Rules

  • Exchange of Non-Dofus items is strictly forbidden. (Explanatory)
  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden.
  • Account trading is strictly forbidden. (Explanatory)
  • Begging for items is not allowed. (Explanatory - Annoying)
  • Please stick to sales. General discussion of items can be taken to the other forums. (Reasonable)
  • Excessive bumping may result in topic closing. Please only bump the topic when necessary. (Reasonable)
  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden.

I for one would like some clarification on this particular rule. I'm going to assume it means I can't trade 5 blue piwi feathers on Rosal, for 5 red piwi feathers on Rushu. Basically because you can't both accept at the same time. Even dofus allows cross-server trading (taking items to and from) between international servers now. In my eyes Imps serves as the perfect virtual marketplace. That is, advertising an item on numerous servers (increasing possible demand) to help users sell items faster/obtain items they can't find on their own server.

I would love to see Imps update their rules and guidelines to address the numerous updates that have occurred in dofus. I would also love it if imps could recruit MODs who are polite, understanding and respectable.

--- Just wanted to add, that not all mods are bad, there are a select few who are fantastic because they are polite, understanding, respectable and reasonable.

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In the last few weeks, imps has had a surge in moderators. Granted, they are always handy to keep things under control, but I personally feel as if they have almost overstepped their responsibilities and are abusing their power.

For starters, threatening a user: "Please include prices or I will remove this thread." Appose to "Could you please include a prices for your items." I'm not sure whether you've ever done business in the real world or not, but you certainly don't address customers like this.

I agree with most of your points regarding the need to have some of the rules reviewed, however I would definitely not say that is a threat. It's just a concise way of saying exactly what they meant to say. Sure, the example you gave is more polite, but the first is not rude either and is not threatening in any way... Not to mention that we aren't really customers, and this is not their job - plus the whole this is the internet thing.

  • Like 4

(͡• ̯ ͡• )

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Everyone knows that certain mods get grumpy if you don't put a price so simple, put a price range so you don't have to fix it down to one price. Not exactly hard.

Edited by Extreal

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It's a threat regardless of how harmless it is, but the main points is conveying it in a nicer way would actually yield better results. We are still customers, as we are using imps (which is a service that we do not pay for). They are still doing a job as a mod, despite not getting paid, otherwise they wouldn't be assigned the responsibility to oversee everything, and there wouldn't be incentives to tell anyone to do anything.

Extreal --- I take it you didn't read what I wrote about the pointlessness of putting a price on items with stats we can't see which we'd like to buy.

Not to mention the fact that they shouldn't be affected by anything we do, if they get grumpy they shouldn't be a mod. If you're a kindergarden teacher and getting grumpy whenever a kid talks... maybe you shouldn't be a kindergarden teacher. They are moderators, in charge of moderating posts, so if they get grumpy for moderating posts, they shouldn't be moderating.

Edited by ReaperSurm

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The whole 'please post a price' thing has bugged me a bit since it was barely enforced for quite a while then mods have come out in full force with it expecting everyone to have a price on every thread. I wouldn't mind seeing a post pinned at the top of all marketplace forums for a short while reminding people of what a buying/selling post needs, hardly intrusive and fills people in (something more recent than marketplace guidelines).

Edit: Also some clarity on this point:

  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden.

This is against the terms of service still (trading 5 piwi feathers on rushu for 5 on rosal is forbidden by the ToS) so no, I think that one is fine.

Whilst mods/admins are reading this thread I'd also like to re suggest having a international community marketplace board much like Rosal/Rushu ect where people that are willing to transfer can post to minimise the number of double posts that are made for people that play on/do business on more than one server at a time.

Edited by Coopers
  • Like 1

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I did read it, hence why I put "price range", surely you would know how much you'd be willing to spend on an item, assuming it had perfect stats and your minimum required stats, therefore you put a range between the two. If people are selling an item then there really is not very much excuse at all as you know how little you'd part with it for so you can just put that (but bump it up a little higher because why the heck not).

I think that they have every right to get grumpy and irritated if they have to keep putting the same thing over and over again, especially when they get called up on it, such as you have done here. It's a simple thing which as long as I have had an imps account for I've been aware of, yet people ignore it for no real reason, admittedly mostly because the old mods didn't do anything about it.

As for what you are saying about us being "customers"

customer
ˈkʌstəmə/
noun
noun: customer; plural noun: customers
  1. 1.
    a person who buys goods or services from a shop or business.
    "Mr Harrison was a regular customer at the Golden Lion"
    synonyms: shopper, consumer, buyer, purchaser; More
    antonyms: seller
  2. 2.
    a person of a specified kind with whom one has to deal.
    "he's a tough customer"
    synonyms: person, individual, creature, fellow, man, woman; More

Only the context of the first one can apply in this case, and although technically we could be classed as a consumer of the "imps product" it's a completely deranged way of looking at it. We are not customers in any way, we take advantage of a free forum, which is far superior to the other major one available to us as a community, and our mod team here is infinitely better than that on the OF. You've mentioned they volunteer for it, and as a result it's never going to be perfect, but it's a damn sight better than it could be. And as for incentives, the reason they apply for a volunteer position is so that they can try to keep this place from descending into anarchy (praise Boltrak) and maintain some standards so that it's easier for us to use.

However just to add to this, I did actually vote for the guidelines to be updated even if I said my experience hadn't been hindered. This is because there are areas, such as cross-server trades, where the situation has changed and other areas where even subtle rewordings which don't alter the meaning at least clear it up so there can be less discrepancies.

Edited by Extreal
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Firstly, 101% We are customers. We are paying 0 for a service. It's consumed as a positive externality. I major in econs, I know this.

Technically, according to the rules, you need a price (implying one) not a range. (whole reason of this post is to address inconsistencies such as this) I mentioned that when selling an item then generally speaking it's pretty logical to add a price (we agree on that at least). But when buying an item you don't know the stats of, e.g. An ap exo inky can vary from 40mk to 250mk, it basically becomes pointless to name an exact price until you see exactly what you're paying for.

They signed up for this, they don't have the right to be grumpy and throw condescending comments and have childish temper tantrums. Of all the mods i've encountered, only a few have given mods a bad name. There are mods that don't get grumpy or irritated when they take care of their duties.

The reason for this was mainly to address inconsistency with the way imps has been enforcing their rules over the last 1-2 years, and update the rules written 7+ years ago so they are more consistent with the dofus updates and changes we've experianced.

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It's a threat regardless of how harmless it is, but the main points is conveying it in a nicer way would actually yield better results. We are still customers, as we are using imps (which is a service that we do not pay for). They are still doing a job as a mod, despite not getting paid, otherwise they wouldn't be assigned the responsibility to oversee everything, and there wouldn't be incentives to tell anyone to do anything.

Extreal --- I take it you didn't read what I wrote about the pointlessness of putting a price on items with stats we can't see which we'd like to buy.

Not to mention the fact that they shouldn't be affected by anything we do, if they get grumpy they shouldn't be a mod. If you're a kindergarden teacher and getting grumpy whenever a kid talks... maybe you shouldn't be a kindergarden teacher. They are moderators, in charge of moderating posts, so if they get grumpy for moderating posts, they shouldn't be moderating.

I.... I'm not sure if you know what a customer is. A customer is someone who receives goods or services in exchange for compensatory rewards such as money. I mean, reading the specific brand of content that the typical frustrated/upset Imps politician isn't really something that I would consider renumeration

Heads up none of us owe you kindness if you are ignoring rules. None of us owe you kindness if you are abiding by the rules. Moderators on the forum will generally treat you with respect because they are human beings who happen to be empathetic but they don't owe it to you. This forum has existed for like 8 years it isn't contingent on you as a person being treated with kid gloves because you were asked to obey the rule you ignored in a mean way.

The whole 'please post a price' thing has bugged me a bit since it was barely enforced for quite a while then mods have come out in full force with it expecting everyone to have a price on every thread. I wouldn't mind seeing a post pinned at the top of all marketplace forums for a short while reminding people of what a buying/selling post needs, hardly intrusive and fills people in (something more recent than marketplace guidelines).

Edit: Also some clarity on this point:

  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden.

This is against the terms of service still (trading 5 piwi feathers on rushu for 5 on rosal is forbidden by the ToS) so no, I think that one is fine.

Whilst mods/admins are reading this thread I'd also like to re suggest having a international community marketplace board much like Rosal/Rushu ect where people that are willing to transfer can post to minimise the number of double posts that are made for people that play on/do business on more than one server at a time.

135c96f3bf.png

Guys I understand wanting transparency but don't make yourselves a martyr. None of you are Jesus you don't have his cheekbones.

Things are up for discussion but lets not be silly tee hee

  • Like 5

bcIKtzE.pngproud grandmother to two beautiful children! i love corresponding to my siblings and friends on the internet and getting cheap deals on ebay. a good trick is to serch for things that people spells wrong! if you are looking for "nice chairs" you can search for "nice chiars" and you can get a bargain.

if you cant handle me at my worst then you dont deserve me at my best!

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You happen to be the perfect example of the condescending tone mods feel they are entitled to.

It's like volunteering to help dying kids, then you be rude to them. You signed up for this. So granted, you don't have to be nice to us, but if you aren't going to be, they why are you a mod?

Secondly, no one is being a martyr, Can i not voice my own opinions without being insulted?

You are a customer as long as you consume a good or service.

Edited by ReaperSurm
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You happen to be the perfect example of the condescending tone mods feel they are entitled to.

It's like volunteering to help dying kids, then you be rude to them. You signed up for this. So granted, you don't have to be nice to us, but if you aren't going to be, they why are you a mod?

Secondly, no one is being a martyr, Can i not voice my own opinions without being insulted?

Are you seriously comparing a misinformed accusatory person using a free forum to being a dying child? I am a mod because I have an investment in this community, not your ego. When you have genuine suggestions in terms of rule stipulations that you would like to be discussed, then this thread makes perfect sense and I'd go so far as to say that it can be healthy in terms of discourse. Those are things that we are actively looking at, internally, as a forum who has recently acquired new moderator staff and is working through the amalgamation of a bunch of new thoughts and ideas into an already existing set of rules. I appreciate that you don't know what we're discussing but the tonality of your thread and the way you've posted it 100% does not read as genuine concern and smacks more of someone who feels slighted and wants to attempt to call into question the integrity of the moderating team in a public and inflammatory way, instead of taking those suggestions directly to the mod team, for example.

However if you would like to make this a thread about how you are being treated terribly (you're not) I'm not here for that tomfoolery. And yes, I'm entitled to say that.

You are a customer as long as you consume a good or service.

No, that would be a "comsumer".

  • Like 4

bcIKtzE.pngproud grandmother to two beautiful children! i love corresponding to my siblings and friends on the internet and getting cheap deals on ebay. a good trick is to serch for things that people spells wrong! if you are looking for "nice chairs" you can search for "nice chiars" and you can get a bargain.

if you cant handle me at my worst then you dont deserve me at my best!

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Hi, I'm a newer moderator.

Let me first say that if you feel there is too much moderation going on, thats most likely because a lot of us newer ones are eager to actually do the job we were promoted to. The first week I was promoted there wasn't a whole lot going on that needed moderation, so when I saw the first closed sale topic I could lock, I jumped on it smiling (literally). Then I went to the IRC and put in all caps "HEY GUYS I LOCKED A TOPIC! :lol: " Currently we have the original moderator team + new moderator team. This is nice, because with such diversity we are able to cover most hours of the day.

As for the marketplace--when we post asking for prices its almost always because that thread was reported by a regular member. All we do is make the comment. If we comment without a "please and thank you" it in absolutely no way implies that we are threatening the OP, or grumpy. Take it from someone who is a little too nice, it could be that we just wanted to be taken seriously as a mod. (No I'm not asking you to bow to me) Lastly, I'd hope we would have room for any grace or mistakes that come along with being a newbie at a job!

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I believe ReaperSurm and all the users on this forum are the "good". The forum does create revenue as small as it may be. Doesn't contribute much to the discussion at hand but still adds a different dimension to the friendly conversation at hand.

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I believe ReaperSurm and all the users on this forum are the "good". The forum does create revenue as small as it may be. Doesn't contribute much to the discussion at hand but still adds a different dimension to the friendly conversation at hand.

(The revenue wouldn't even cover the cost of the hosting just to clear that up. There is no money to be made from this forum)

  • Like 2

bcIKtzE.pngproud grandmother to two beautiful children! i love corresponding to my siblings and friends on the internet and getting cheap deals on ebay. a good trick is to serch for things that people spells wrong! if you are looking for "nice chairs" you can search for "nice chiars" and you can get a bargain.

if you cant handle me at my worst then you dont deserve me at my best!

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(The revenue wouldn't even cover the cost of the hosting just to clear that up. There is no money to be made from this forum, if anything we're in the red)

An unsuccessful business is still a business. Im well aware the point of this forum wasn't to make money , but most things on the internet that manage to garner a certain traffic are. Im not implying anything , just adding a different dimension to the prior discussion.

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Ooh, here's a train to hate on mods! I'm hopping on before it gets closed. DOWN WITH SUNBATHE THE TYRANT!

  • Like 4

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100% Authentic ChankD™ // Outdated player of the past

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Sunbathe, You're exactly what a mod should be, polite, respectful and understanding.

And thank you for the explanation :)

And I also want to point out that is isn't the lack of please or thankyous, but the tone (of some mods) and just the fact that dofus has changed so much that some of the rules are a little questionable, hence why i created this, i genuinely wanted to create this so we could discuss the rules and guidelines, perhaps making them more precise, or revising others completely.

Yours is the perfect example of someone who can moderate in a kind polite and respectful manner. And if you were to ask me to do anything, i'd more than likely comply.

However, i'm sure you can understand mine and others frustration when there are disrespectful mods enforcing the same message, as Garne has so kindly shown.

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However, i'm sure you can understand mine and others frustration when there are disrespectful mods enforcing the same message, as Garne has so kindly shown.

tumblr_nbayp43lWv1tuk7i7o1_500.jpg

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bcIKtzE.pngproud grandmother to two beautiful children! i love corresponding to my siblings and friends on the internet and getting cheap deals on ebay. a good trick is to serch for things that people spells wrong! if you are looking for "nice chairs" you can search for "nice chiars" and you can get a bargain.

if you cant handle me at my worst then you dont deserve me at my best!

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[pic of marketplace guidelines]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in what I was proposing. Very recently I've seen banners in green above the pinned topics (few in Village Updates? from what I remember) and that is what I propose, something new and eye catching for a short while since the marketplace guidelines threads do not manage to attract much attention.

  • Like 2

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I don't know how to respond to this....Mods have been fair. Personally i think they let us get away with a bit too much sometimes, which causes quite a bit of drama.

But then again it gives the forums life, and keeps me coming back.

  • Like 1

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Linnaeus: The worst ecaflip on Rushu (now) (Unless Boltrak makes an ecaflip). 

 

Chargaff: The guy who doesn't know how to play a Pandawa. 

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However, i'm sure you can understand mine and others frustration when there are disrespectful mods enforcing the same message, as Garne has so kindly shown.

I dont really see where your frustration might stem from. The mods are new , they want to simply have something to do. Most threads have no price , there's really no need for any different wording , it gets the job done and thats that. As for garne hes been like this as a user and as a mod , for 6 years or however long hes been around. And who cares really? All the other mods are so nice its disgusting anyway , diversity is fun.

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Garne, You know you're just showing yourself up as more childish and pathetic? Not to mention reducing any arguments to rubble because of your immaturity. And, enforcing the idea that some mods have overstepped their responsibilities and abusing their authority. Just because you're a mod, doesn't mean you're king.

But thankyou for taking the topic away from the topic at hand and back to yourself.

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Sorry, I should have been more clear in what I was proposing. Very recently I've seen banners in green above the pinned topics (few in Village Updates? from what I remember) and that is what I propose, something new and eye catching for a short while since the marketplace guidelines threads do not manage to attract much attention.

Ah, those are alerts and they are mostly site wide. It's kind of messy to regulate them because they arent classed as posts. I'm sure when we work out some of the other things we're hoping to get up to scratch, we'd have something in the form of a notice encapsulating all the changes.

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bcIKtzE.pngproud grandmother to two beautiful children! i love corresponding to my siblings and friends on the internet and getting cheap deals on ebay. a good trick is to serch for things that people spells wrong! if you are looking for "nice chairs" you can search for "nice chiars" and you can get a bargain.

if you cant handle me at my worst then you dont deserve me at my best!

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Personally i think they let us get away with a bit too much sometimes

That's because for a long period of time, no one was active to stop us from getting away with it :rolleyes:

With the recent (well-deserved) promotion of several active members to moderator status, maybe it's time for some of you to retire. This really isn't a huge situation; it's a dying forum dedicated to a relatively-small community of an alternative MMO. Those who want to dedicate their time to maintaining this forum have stepped up. The rest of you should step down.

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Sols, Sun and the Solbank Army

[Prime]

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The rest of you should step down.

But I just got promoted :(

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