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Jon

Sale price in trading threads

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So, I've noticed that some mods are going around closing/warning trading threads that don't include a buying/selling price. I really think that the Imps admins should reconsider this rule.

Have you heard of the concept of price discrimination? Let's say I'm selling a Turquoise Dofus and two people, person A and person B, respond to my offer. Let's also say I'm willing to sell this item for 12 million kamas, but I don't state that. I talk to each of them via PM; person A is willing to pay me 12 million kamas while person B is willing to pay me 15 million. It's not misleading or shady for me in any way to sell my Dofus to person B, is it? Person B, for whatever reason, values this item a lot more than person A (and me) so it makes sense for me to sell it to him.

Now let's say I was forced to post my price (12mk). Person A responds to me first, but then person B comes and outbids person A. Isn't this a worse scenario than the above? I have to either willingly give up millions of kamas and sell to person A, or seem dishonest and sell to person B.

Even if you disagree with the laws of economics, also consider the fact that this rule is super unenforceable. The way you guys are currently enforcing it is by posting a rather sarcastic quote of the trade forum rules, and then closing the thread. Really? You are enforcing a rule for the sake of enforcing the rules, not because that rule actually helps us. And, this rule just randomly started being enforced; we were all getting along fine a few weeks ago when trading threads weren't getting closed by mods.

I understand the utility of having an archive of prices if everyone obeyed. But:

1. No one is obeying this rule anyway, even with the mods closing threads.

2. You can always modify the rule to ask users to post the price after they've bought or sold their item.

3. Even if you implemented #2, you still have no way of enforcing it.

So, please, can you focus your moderating efforts elsewhere and get rid of this rule?

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While I can't answer everything, I can answer the following.

The way you guys are currently enforcing it is by posting a rather sarcastic quote of the trade forum rules, and then closing the thread. Really? You are enforcing a rule for the sake of enforcing the rules, not because that rule actually helps us. And, this rule just randomly started being enforced; we were all getting along fine a few weeks ago when trading threads weren't getting closed by mods.

While you may think the posting of the guidelines is sarcastic, I can assure it isn't. The reason we are "randomly" enforcing this rule is because people have finally started reporting these threads so we can actually get to fixing them. While you may not see anyone post to complain, we are swamped with reports. With how many posts are made, we can't reasonable read every thread in the marketplace sub-forums without help from the users.

So, please, can you focus your moderating efforts elsewhere and get rid of this rule?

We focus our efforts wherever someone reports something or if we see it while we're browsing. We can't be everywhere.


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This rule seems fine for a lot of things like resources and regular equips. But I think some items should be exempted, such as Dofuses and exomaged items.

It's really hard to slap a price on that. It's more a checking of how much money someone wants to pay or how much someone wants to let the item go for. A mandatory "post the price after the deal" is much more helpful in these cases.

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While you may think the posting of the guidelines is sarcastic, I can assure it isn't.

I was referring mainly to Sljm's use of "very large and underlined" in all the threads he warns, not just the fact that he quotes the guidelines. It seems unnecessarily sarcastic to me, but maybe I'm just reading too much into that.

With how many posts are made, we can't reasonable read every thread in the marketplace sub-forums without help from the users.

Well, that's kind of the point. There are too many rule breaking threads for this rule to be effective, so just having a mod post in every thread seems kind of useless because 90% of the posters never go back to edit their original post. Like I said, an archive of prices would be useful in theory, but since no one bothers, it seems like a pointless crusade for the moderators to bother as well.


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It seems unnecessarily sarcastic to me, but maybe I'm just reading too much into that.

I've seen the posts prior to this. I would have posted the same thing as people seem to ignore the guidelines thread and think they can just post what they would like.

Well, that's kind of the point. There are too many rule breaking threads for this rule to be effective, so just having a mod post in every thread seems kind of useless because 90% of the posters never go back to edit their original post. Like I said, an archive of prices would be useful in theory, but since no one bothers, it seems like a pointless crusade for the moderators to bother as well.

Because people keep breaking the rule, it shouldn't be a rule? I honestly do not understand the logic behind this. I understand updating the rule to reflect the changes in the game, but removing the rule entirely isn't the way to do it. Ala has the right idea in this regard.

From your original post, I kind of got the idea that you were trying to tell me that you just wanted more money over an actual rule change. While this isn't a bad thing, that alone shouldn't change the rule. What I propose is you give a high price and say you're open for negotiation on the price. For the most part, the mod is up for working on revising rules to match the current state of affairs, but just removing it isn't the right path to take.


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]Because people keep breaking the rule, it shouldn't be a rule? I honestly do not understand the logic behind this. I understand updating the rule to reflect the changes in the game, but removing the rule entirely isn't the way to do it. Ala has the right idea in this regard.

No, the combination of the fact that the rule (IMO) doesn't make sense and the fact that it's unenforceable means it shouldn't be a rule. I also agree with Ala's post: for items with more of a fixed price, it makes sense for people to straight up post the price in the thread because it's beneficial for everyone involved. As I was talking about more high-end items, I don't see how Ala and I have differing opinions.

]From your original post, I kind of got the idea that you were trying to tell me that you just wanted more money over an actual rule change. While this isn't a bad thing, that alone shouldn't change the rule. What I propose is you give a high price and say you're open for negotiation on the price. For the most part, the mod is up for working on revising rules to match the current state of affairs, but just removing it isn't the right path to take.

Wow. That's a pretty big oversimplification of my main point, but okay.

What one person considers a "high price" for an item may not be so high for another person. The whole point is that not every item has a single price, because it depends on each person's willingness to pay. By forcing people to post prices initially, you're hindering negotiation. If you insist that people just post a high initial price and then ask for negotiation, then the initial price just becomes a formality for users to get around the rule.


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Okay, so here's a screenshot of our cleared reports from a few days ago (obviously not the current page, some of those are more sensitive to post).

1flEz.png

Note how many of these are for marketplace threads that needed sorting.

Now, in light of this, we might revise the rules. But having a go at mods for doing their job, particularly when it's been asked by the public, is a little out of order. (In a La Madre post a couple of weeks ago someone complained we weren't keeping up with this part of the rules, so we told them to report it if they wanted them taking care of).

Now, (I'm going to bold this bit, this is important generally not just in this situation), if you have issues with a mod, then PM me. Or even PM a different mod and they can pass the concern on. But PMing me is the best way to have concerns looked at properly.

Like I said, the mods are likely to have a look and probably revise the rules a little, like Ala constructively suggested. But if people go around demanding we stop doing our jobs because it annoys them, then that's not going to facilitate things.

And if we stopped doing something "just because people ignore it anyway", then I would have quit modding altogether years ago.


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Well, I have always followed the rules in my sales threads throughout the years (eventhou I havent been selling much last 12 months or more) but I dont have a problem when people do not post their asking price.

However, for the records, I like the rule of stating for how much item was sold/bought. And I really appreciate when people properly change topic titles after item was bought/sold and when they actually name topics as it is required in rules.

If you dont like the rules: 1. dont sell via Imps 2. or lets change rules. Personally I like option nr 1, but at the same time I think we all could live without mandatory asking price being posted.

Anyway, there is always way how to avoid posting asking price below actual price. Just state higher asking price or best offer. And in the disclaimer include that in case of not being happy with the offer you reserve the right not to sell. It's not like Imps rules force you to sell, just because you tried to sell the item. Of course, sticking to rule and avoiding its negative effect at the same time may make you look like a fool when you try to sell Ochre for 100mk these days just to make sure you dont post price too low. But as someone has posted before, then asking price is a formality...and I doubt this was an intention..

Same goes for buying posts.

edit: well fosjam made a post, hopefully will result in tweaking the rules a bit

Edited by s.h.i.e.l.d.a.l.e

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Wow. That's a pretty big oversimplification of my main point, but okay.

What one person considers a "high price" for an item may not be so high for another person. The whole point is that not every item has a single price, because it depends on each person's willingness to pay. By forcing people to post prices initially, you're hindering negotiation. If you insist that people just post a high initial price and then ask for negotiation, then the initial price just becomes a formality for users to get around the rule.

I should have been a little more clear, I meant that your post gave out a vibe that you were mad because posting a price limits you from getting more money. While you may not have meant that to be the case, its just the vibe I got.

You are aware that pawn shops work by listing a price and then negotiate the final price? The negotiation suggestion is just that, a suggestion. As for actual changing of the rule, Fos already made a nice post.


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Okay, so here's a screenshot of our cleared reports from a few days ago (obviously not the current page, some of those are more sensitive to post).

1flEz.png

Note how many of these are for marketplace threads that needed sorting.

Now, in light of this, we might revise the rules. But having a go at mods for doing their job, particularly when it's been asked by the public, is a little out of order. (In a La Madre post a couple of weeks ago someone complained we weren't keeping up with this part of the rules, so we told them to report it if they wanted them taking care of).

Now, (I'm going to bold this bit, this is important generally not just in this situation), if you have issues with a mod, then PM me. Or even PM a different mod and they can pass the concern on. But PMing me is the best way to have concerns looked at properly.

Like I said, the mods are likely to have a look and probably revise the rules a little, like Ala constructively suggested. But if people go around demanding we stop doing our jobs because it annoys them, then that's not going to facilitate things.

And if we stopped doing something "just because people ignore it anyway", then I would have quit modding altogether years ago.

I honestly apologize if you thought I was calling out the mods because I was annoyed. I thought this was the best place to post, since it's the suggestion forum and I'm suggesting something.

I'm trying to be civil here, but it seems that I've struck a nerve. This was meant to be an innocent suggestion and I don't understand how you thought I was "demanding" something.

(Actually, looking back, my last sentence could have been misconstrued as belligerent, but again, that was not my intention. Still, the fact that you and Jake both agree with Ala but not me -- when we're basically proposing the same thing -- shows you're taking something personally. In that case, maybe you should take your own advice and PM me instead.)


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My post wasn't entirely directed at you. There were parts that came across as a little belligerent to the mods, but you were civil.

But this seemed a good place to direct my response to people, we've had a few posts elsewhere and some rather demanding reports/PMs directed at us too.

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I personally HATE when people do not place the price they want in their topic, and love that it is being handled. It had come to a point that people just started playing offer games on Imps.

"Hey I would like to buy your nicely maged hat that you posted. :D",

"Offer",

">.> Um... how about 5mk?",

"No.",

"7.5mk",

"No",

"10mk...",

"No",

"WELL HOW THE FUCK MUCH DO YOU WANT?!!?! >.>",

"Offer"

That made me want to beat their face in with a blunt metal object.

After that shit I said fuck it and have not bothered to even browse through the section of imps where people try to sell things...

Edit: I also hope that the rule does NOT change. Because people just do that to try to milk every damn kama they can, and it is just bullshit and a waste of time. There are already enough offer games on Dofus, let's not allow them on Imps. v.v

Edited by Sticky-Biscuits
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This rule seems fine for a lot of things like resources and regular equips. But I think some items should be exempted, such as Dofuses and exomaged items.

It's really hard to slap a price on that. It's more a checking of how much money someone wants to pay or how much someone wants to let the item go for. A mandatory "post the price after the deal" is much more helpful in these cases.

I agree with this.

I personally HATE when people do not place the price they want in their topic, and love that it is being handled. It had come to a point that people just started playing offer games on Imps.

"Hey I would like to buy your nicely maged hat that you posted. :D",

"Offer",

">.> Um... how about 5mk?",

"No.",

"7.5mk",

"No",

"10mk...",

"No",

"WELL HOW THE FUCK MUCH DO YOU WANT?!!?! >.>",

"Offer"

That made me want to beat their face in with a blunt metal object.

After that shit I said fuck it and have not bothered to even browse through the section of imps where people try to sell things...

Edit: I also hope that the rule does NOT change. Because people just do that to try to milk every damn kama they can, and it is just bullshit and a waste of time. There are already enough offer games on Dofus, let's not allow them on Imps. v.v

I agree with this more.

If you're not sure of a price on items such as dofus or exo, then the research needs to be done before hand. I've seen a lot of these items go up for pretty detailed auctions in the past. A starting price with a close out date and a buyout price to boot. That's the way to go for things like this. Just recently I tried to buy something that was posted "selling (said item)." With no response on imps I PM'd him ingame and he ended up changing his mind cause he didn't like the offers he was getting. I know some people like to keep there business in PMs for various understandable reasons, but it's too cumbersome for the buyer. I'm going to start reporting this stuff too. Either lay down flat prices or pull off a detailed auction after your own research. I don't even care if anyone does a price check thread first.

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I personally am glad that the rule is being enforced, and also second the notion of the poster above if you have a rare item, just create a bloody auction for it, I have been an imps users since 2005 when it was still a phpBB forum and for years we had no problem with aforementioned rule, everyone posted their asking prices.

Imho consistent rulebreaking should just be dealt with by handing out warning leading up to a ban if the rule breaking continues, which I believe is the way other rule breaking is dealt with and maybe we can have the market place back to the way it should be, open and informative and not a place speculative buying and selling is rampant, which can be (and is being done excessively) in game already.

edit: I do plenty of speculative buying and selling IG myself, but I do not like seeing it here on imps.

Edited by Maguls

I am offering A server-transfer Delivery Service.
The Charge is 2mk with a limit of 150pods additional pods cost 500kk per 100.
I need to receive the Items for delivery on the Monday latest( I am on 17:00-18:00GMT) and I will hand the Items to you on the new server on Tuesday (17:00-18:00GMT)

Current transfers planned for the 27th of May

Rosal -> Zato

Zato -> Rushu

Rosal -> Rushu

More info -> http://impsvillage.com/forums/topic/136234-maguls-interserver-delivery-service/page__pid__1335911#entry133591

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If you're not sure of a price on items such as dofus or exo, then the research needs to be done before hand. I've seen a lot of these items go up for pretty detailed auctions in the past. A starting price with a close out date and a buyout price to boot. That's the way to go for things like this. Just recently I tried to buy something that was posted "selling (said item)." With no response on imps I PM'd him ingame and he ended up changing his mind cause he didn't like the offers he was getting. I know some people like to keep there business in PMs for various understandable reasons, but it's too cumbersome for the buyer. I'm going to start reporting this stuff too. Either lay down flat prices or pull off a detailed auction after your own research. I don't even care if anyone does a price check thread first.

So, let me get this straight: you want people who have no idea of the price of their item to post a price check thread, and then post a selling thread? Why can't they just combine both threads into one? If someone doesn't know how much their item costs, they're not going to be able to post an accurate initial price, period.

Also, it's not like getting this rule will ban people from posting initial prices if they still want to do that.

I personally HATE when people do not place the price they want in their topic, and love that it is being handled. It had come to a point that people just started playing offer games on Imps.

"Hey I would like to buy your nicely maged hat that you posted. :D",

"Offer",

">.> Um... how about 5mk?",

"No.",

"7.5mk",

"No",

"10mk...",

"No",

"WELL HOW THE FUCK MUCH DO YOU WANT?!!?! >.>",

"Offer"

That made me want to beat their face in with a blunt metal object.

After that shit I said fuck it and have not bothered to even browse through the section of imps where people try to sell things...

Edit: I also hope that the rule does NOT change. Because people just do that to try to milk every damn kama they can, and it is just bullshit and a waste of time. There are already enough offer games on Dofus, let's not allow them on Imps. v.v

That is a wildly unrealistic scenario. Let me ask: do you think the goal of sellers is to make their buyers as frustrated as possible? No, they ultimately want to sell their item. They're not going to make it hell for you to do so.

Let's take your example again and say you're the one who posted a "B>" thread, instead of replying to a "S>" thread.

You: B> Nicely maged hat. 5mk.

Seller: Um, that offer is way too lowball. I wouldn't even accept double that, so I'm not even going to bother contacting this guy.

As you can see, this rule hurts buyers and sellers equally if they are negotiating an expensive item that doesn't necessarily have a fixed price (a maged hat is a perfect example of such an item, so thank you).

I personally am glad that the rule is being enforced, and also second the notion of the poster above if you have a rare item, just create a bloody auction for it, I have been an imps users since 2005 when it was still a phpBB forum and for years we had no problem with aforementioned rule, everyone posted their asking prices.

Imho consistent rulebreaking should just be dealt with by handing out warning leading up to a ban if the rule breaking continues, which I believe is the way other rule breaking is dealt with and maybe we can have the market place back to the way it should be, open and informative and not a place speculative buying and selling is rampant, which can be (and is being done excessively) in game already.

edit: I do plenty of speculative buying and selling IG myself, but I do not like seeing it here on imps.

If this rule were to be changed, no one is stopping you from making an auction if you think that's the best way of selling something. Personally, setting up an auction takes up way too much time, and trying to win an auction also takes up too much time, but that's my opinion. It would be foolish to force people to sell via auction. You, and the other 2 posters before you, seem to have the notion that 1) removing the rule will set up another rule banning initial prices, and 2) I'm a greedy businessman who is trying to get the most for my items. No, you're completely ignoring the fact that buyers are also affected by this rule.

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wall of text

Jon, name me a few other market models where no asking price is given nor is the item sold in an auction form. I really find all your arguments to support not having an asking price extremely weak.

Edited by Maguls
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I am offering A server-transfer Delivery Service.
The Charge is 2mk with a limit of 150pods additional pods cost 500kk per 100.
I need to receive the Items for delivery on the Monday latest( I am on 17:00-18:00GMT) and I will hand the Items to you on the new server on Tuesday (17:00-18:00GMT)

Current transfers planned for the 27th of May

Rosal -> Zato

Zato -> Rushu

Rosal -> Rushu

More info -> http://impsvillage.com/forums/topic/136234-maguls-interserver-delivery-service/page__pid__1335911#entry133591

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The reason someone wouldn't have an idea what a dofus, for example, is worth, is people not posting prices in their threads. That's actually the point of the rule; not to make it harder on people or make them (gasp) lose money. It's helpful. More helpful than nothing more than "PM offer thanks!"

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The reason someone wouldn't have an idea what a dofus, for example, is worth, is people not posting prices in their threads. That's actually the point of the rule; not to make it harder on people or make them (gasp) lose money. It's helpful. More helpful than nothing more than "PM offer thanks!"

Then keep the rule that people have to post the price after they sell/buy an item, but not before.

Jon, name me a few other market models where no asking price is given nor is the item sold in an auction form. I really find all your arguments to support not having an asking price extremely weak.

Obviously, either the buyer or seller has to start off the negotiation with a price. The point is that we shouldn't force the poster to be the one who does so, publicly, in their thread. How people choose to sell their items -- whether it's by auction, by posting an initial price, or by fielding offers from prospective buyers -- is their choice, and going around shutting down trading threads for not abiding by what you think is the "right" way of selling is not a very good solution.

Also, "wall of text?" Really? You consider 5 sentences a wall of text? Okay...


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So, let me get this straight: you want people who have no idea of the price of their item to post a price check thread, and then post a selling thread? Why can't they just combine both threads into one? If someone doesn't know how much their item costs, they're not going to be able to post an accurate initial price, period.

Price check thread --> edit to selling thread

I came up with the idea, you came up with the format...TEAMWORK!

That is a wildly unrealistic scenario. Let me ask: do you think the goal of sellers is to make their buyers as frustrated as possible? No, they ultimately want to sell their item. They're not going to make it hell for you to do so.

I dont' think this is unrealistic at all. I've come across this very scenario myself several times. No, it's not the goal to cause frustration...but that's what happens sometimes.

I think it would help to add in the price at the end of sale if nothing else.

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I dont' think this is unrealistic at all. I've come across this very scenario myself several times. No, it's not the goal to cause frustration...but that's what happens sometimes. I think it would help to add in the price at the end of sale if nothing else.

It is wildly unrealistic. Sticky-Biscuits simply made up an example in which the seller is an "Offer"-bot who actually has no interest in selling the item. But apparently, the straw man he's created has successfully convinced many people that he has the right idea.

Unless, of course, the main problem here is that you are personally annoyed by the word "offer," which now that I think of it is probably the case. If you have something against negotiation, buy stuff from the sell room. The only reason I use Imps for trading is if I want to trade something that doesn't have a fixed price -- e.g. a Dofus, house, or a maged end-game set.

Edited by Jon

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It is wildly unrealistic. Sticky-Biscuits simply made up an example in which the seller is an "Offer"-bot who actually has no interest in selling the item. But apparently, the straw man he's created has successfully convinced many people that he has the right idea.

Unless, of course, the main problem here is that you are personally annoyed by the word "offer," which now that I think of it is probably the case. If you have something against negotiation, buy stuff from the sell room. The only reason I use Imps for trading is if I want to trade something that doesn't have a fixed price -- e.g. a Dofus, house, or a maged end-game set.

No, it is not wildly unrealistic. It has happened to me more than I can count. The point in haggling is that BOTH people are supposed to be making offers there. When it comes to these people who just want to play offering games, they do not ever say what they want, they just say offer over and over. It pisses me off. IF you want to haggle over a price, you need to give me a fucking counter offer instead of just saying no to the amount that I proposed. It could go as this:

"Hey, I would like that hat, how does 5mk sound?"

"Hmm, no I was thinking more around 20mk"

"Yikes that is crazy, how about 10mk?"

"I will not go lower than 15mk"

"How about 14mk and I throw in a Minotot Ring?"

"Deal"

But NoOoOoOoOo, people do not know how to haggle at all. >.>

Edit: And I think I should reiterate this one more time. These people do not want to say the price that they want to sell something for, as they want to milk every last kama they can from people. They DO have a price in mind, but they do not want to tell you in case you go higher than their price and they can make a great deal. I think it is just shitty business, but that is my opinion.

Edited by Sticky-Biscuits

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going around shutting down trading threads for not abiding by what you think is the "right" way of selling is not a very good solution.

Seriously ? this is a forum with rules, one of the rules is to post asking prices and by signing up to this forum you are agreeing to abide by these rules. What you are basically suggesting, is going against the forum rules doing what "you" think is right.

Any forum has particular sets of rules and obviously everyone can choose to use it or not. But trying to force you own values on a forum which already has set rules when it comes to the marketplace is akin to someone coming to your home and telling you how to live.

I will end this back and forth with this post, I have made my position clear, I am happy with the current set of marketplace rules and would like to see them enforced.

Edited by Maguls
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I am offering A server-transfer Delivery Service.
The Charge is 2mk with a limit of 150pods additional pods cost 500kk per 100.
I need to receive the Items for delivery on the Monday latest( I am on 17:00-18:00GMT) and I will hand the Items to you on the new server on Tuesday (17:00-18:00GMT)

Current transfers planned for the 27th of May

Rosal -> Zato

Zato -> Rushu

Rosal -> Rushu

More info -> http://impsvillage.com/forums/topic/136234-maguls-interserver-delivery-service/page__pid__1335911#entry133591

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No, it is not wildly unrealistic. It has happened to me more than I can count. The point in haggling is that BOTH people are supposed to be making offers there. When it comes to these people who just want to play offering games, they do not ever say what they want, they just say offer over and over. It pisses me off. IF you want to haggle over a price, you need to give me a fucking counter offer instead of just saying no to the amount that I proposed. It could go as this:

"Hey, I would like that hat, how does 5mk sound?"

"Hmm, no I was thinking more around 20mk"

"Yikes that is crazy, how about 10mk?"

"I will not go lower than 15mk"

"How about 14mk and I throw in a Minotot Ring?"

"Deal"

But NoOoOoOoOo, people do not know how to haggle at all. >.>

Edit: And I think I should reiterate this one more time. These people do not want to say the price that they want to sell something for, as they want to milk every last kama they can from people. They DO have a price in mind, but they do not want to tell you in case you go higher than their price and they can make a great deal. I think it is just shitty business, but that is my opinion.

So, ultimately, you don't like haggling with people. That's perfectly fine, but I don't think the goal of this rule was to prevent negotiation in the first place. (Although, frankly, I question your tactics if you start with an offer that's a third of what you're willing to pay.)

You say that sellers are greedy people who "want to milk every last kama they can." Can't you also say that buyers are greedy for trying to save every last kama they can? Sellers will always try to get the most they can for their item, and buyers will always try to spend the least. Not sure why only one side is being vilified here. Sure, "milk" sounds a lot more evil when you put it like that, but when did this thread turn into a rant against price-gouging businessmen? Those aren't the people I'm defending and I could easily present my argument based on a buyer's perspective instead.

Seriously ? this is a forum with rules, one of the rules is to post asking prices and by signing up to this forum you are agreeing to abide by these rules. What you are basically suggesting, is going against the forum rules doing what "you" think is right.

Any forum has particular sets of rules and obviously everyone can choose to use it or not. But trying to force you own values on a forum which already has set rules when it comes to the marketplace is akin to someone coming to your home and telling you how to live.

The fact that a rule exists doesn't automatically make it the best solution. That's a logical fallacy.

Obviously, I don't have to use Imps if I don't want to. But seeing as a suggestion forum exists, I think the admins are, in fact, open to change. Also, your analogy doesn't work at all: getting rid of this rule isn't going to change your life in any way, or even cause you inconvenience, considering the fact that the rule has been ignored for a long time now. That's a pretty giant leap for you to make. Let me present a (hopefully) more apt metaphor:

Me: I disagree with our school's dress code. I think it should be changed.

You (who attends the same school): Why are you here then? You can always move to another school district! Stop trying to impose your values on all of us!

I'm not going to pretend that this rule is a big deal. I started this thread because I wanted to have more freedom when using the IV trading forum.

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So, ultimately, you don't like haggling with people.

That's not what he was saying, at all. He gave a very good example of what haggling should look like, in fact. What he doesn't like, is people who will not tell you the price they're looking for, which is exactly not haggling.

Please stop misrepresenting other people's arguments in an attempt to "win".

Thanks.

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That's not what he was saying, at all. He gave a very good example of what haggling should look like, in fact. What he doesn't like, is people who will not tell you the price they're looking for, which is exactly not haggling.

You're right, I misread his post. I apologize. There are still many problems with his post, which I have pointed out earlier and will again below.

Please stop misrepresenting other people's arguments in an attempt to "win".

Have I been doing that as a strategy? In fact, you just described perfectly what Sticky-Biscuits has been doing, which is turning this into a topic on how bad hagglers ruin a trade. I'm in perfect agreement: someone who endlessly says "offer" would be annoying.

Let me state what I think his argument is, then. He thinks the rule should stay because some of the people he's tried to negotiate with expect the buyer to keep offering prices until they reach an acceptable level. I've personally never dealt with anyone like this, and even the Frig farmers and Turq sellers I've dealt with were happy to quote me a price when I asked -- but then again, my anecdotal experience is just as meaningless as Sticky's. Still, I am of the opinion that sellers tend to want to, you know, sell things.

Even if we set aside this hypothetical "offer"-bot, where does the rule leave the rest of us who actually do haggle properly? Not in a great place, since for items like exo-mages, Dofuses, etc. there often is no fixed price, and it's more effective to field offers before committing to a price -- and this applies to both selling and buying.

Thanks.

On an unrelated note, it's a little off-putting how condescending you are in some of your posts.

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