Jump to content
  • Imps Blue
  • Blueberry
  • Slate
  • Sky
  • Watermelon
  • Strawberry
  • Orange
  • Banana
  • Imps Green
  • Emerald
  • Chocolate
  • Charcoal
Sign in to follow this  
SeraphX

Feca Test Notes

Recommended Posts

I've read a rather intense amount of loathing for the Feca changes. I don't PvP, so I decided to get on the test server and futz around on PvM and try to figure out the implications, make some notes and observations, etc. Hopefully other people with Feca can record their experiences here.

Observations:

  • The AP/damage ratio for Repulsion Glyph is pretty good for Feca. At level 5, with 247 Str/746 Int/376 Chance, it does about 400 damage for 2ap against 0 resists in three elements. I heard the damage was garbage, but this is not bad. Compared to Burning Glyph, it's often going to be at least as much damage, but possibly more and it costs less AP.
  • The problem with Repulsion Glyph is that it basically never hits anything. Monsters can move off and since Feca typically have little to no agi, it's hard to lock stuff. In testing, the only reliable hits on monsters with more than 0mp is to combine it with Paralyzing Glyph. But since you have to re-cast each turn, the bottom line is that the AP/damage ratio is worse than Burning Glyph simply because -MP + BG would usually hit the monster twice for 3ap.
  • I spent a bit of time trying to figure out how to place Repulsion Glyph so that creatures would have to walk onto it if they wanted to hit me, etc. Then I spent a bit of time trying to use it to manipulate where monsters move. Both of these are exceedingly hard to do and largely unsuccessful and this is in small PvM battles, let alone boss fights where the enemies have tons of map manip, massive MP, huge agi, etc.
  • I would really like to see Repulsion Glyph in team mode to see if it's relevant to cast it on an agi sac or someone, lock some monsters and do good damage. But they typically like to swap around to maximize Sunshade Staff hits, so this might not even be a good strategy.
  • I feel like Repulsion Glyph either needs to do start of the turn damage OR be multi-cast at 1ap so you can spend all your ap to make a smaller than BG but still relatively complete damage area.
  • If the Str and Chance builds are being pushed, even though what Ankama wants is everyone to be a hybrid, it seems like they should fix the soft caps to where Int isn't the default, rewarded build.

Bottom line:

Leek Pie + Backlash is probably just better than Leek Pie + Natural Attack now, even in a "pure int" build at the end game. Bubble was already better than Natural Attack on a character with 1/3 as much Chance as Int. I think it's time to just use Backlash and it seems viable even at a pretty low strength. However, even though they historically tried to reduce the impact of close combat on PvM, this new change basically makes close combat even more attractive for PvM battles, given that the damage output on maximized combat spells is limited on individual monsters. This seems counter-productive and will make spells less relevant, and therefore character types more marginal, the game more bland, etc.

For now, I'm not inclined to agree with the doomsayers and ragequit and so one, but I don't think this has done anything to improve the Feca beyond their currently highly marginal status. Repulsion Glyph is cool and I want to like it, but I can't make it do anything other than waste AP 3 out of 4 casts.

TODO:

I would like to reset my stats on the test server and try out a Str/agi build to see if that can make good use of Repulsion. Not sure how to do this, or to really acquire str/agi gear. I might end up trying out throwing my points into Strength instead of int400/wis, despite the horrible softcaps. I think I have an un-maged Staff of the Prophets I can test out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about Natural Attack: what's the new base damage? When they said it's "less random" does that mean they increased the minimum or decreased the maximum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about Natural Attack: what's the new base damage? When they said it's "less random" does that mean they increased the minimum or decreased the maximum?

Current level 6: 9-13/15

Beta level 6: 10-12/13-15

So, the base damage is "tightened" which means it can't do as much damage, but it also won't do as little. The crit is just worse. Bottom line, it won't hit as hard. Also, 2 hits per target, like Bubble and Backlash already were. I'm pretty sure if you're in Glad Bworker gear, for example, that you just want Leek Pie and Bubble and not bother with Natural Attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TODO:

I would like to reset my stats on the test server and try out a Str/agi build to see if that can make good use of Repulsion. Not sure how to do this, or to really acquire str/agi gear. I might end up trying out throwing my points into Strength instead of int400/wis, despite the horrible softcaps. I think I have an un-maged Staff of the Prophets I can test out.

Probably a waste of time. Unless your str/agi gear is also packing a lot of +lock you won't LOCK anything worthy. Most monsters can even move a space or 2 from the best of us.

Are there any other changes in the beta aside from this? Like the shield fuse? or is that a later one? D: I read this to see what changes there were but it seems to only be about repulsion (and lol @ the "less random" natural attack, I'm so glad I chose wis/cha). I just want all the details D:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably a waste of time. Unless your str/agi gear is also packing a lot of +lock you won't LOCK anything worthy. Most monsters can even move a space or 2 from the best of us.

Are there any other changes in the beta aside from this? Like the shield fuse? or is that a later one? D: I read this to see what changes there were but it seems to only be about repulsion (and lol @ the "less random" natural attack, I'm so glad I chose wis/cha). I just want all the details D:

The shields aren't fused yet. Still costs a crap ton of spell points to be a feca ;-). I've heard they updated Natural Attack to 3x and increased the damage since I last logged on. I will check again and post notes. Repulsion Glyph was cool but probably not worth using, sadly. That was the only really exciting/interesting change. Hopefully they modify that. It seems powerful enough, but basically incredibly unreliable to hit with it under normal circumstances.

And, thanks for the input on the agi. I just don't think agi feca has any support of any sort, and it's definitely not worth it to use Repulsion Glyph in its current form.

I wish they'd make str/cha have normal soft caps :-(

Natural Attack is now 12-14/15-17 and 3x. So, it might even be worth using now. It's slightly better than it was. 3x per target, rather than 2x.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So repulsion glyph is the opposite of normal glyphs? It deals damage when ENDING the turn on it instead of STARTING on it? And is cloudy switched to chance yet? (Although i probably still wont use it o_O, linear randomness, ew). That natural seems much better though. I don't use glyph of silence or cloudy attack or natural attack, so I'm really just trying to see how this update actually effects ME. lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So repulsion glyph is the opposite of normal glyphs? It deals damage when ENDING the turn on it instead of STARTING on it? And is cloudy switched to chance yet? (Although i probably still wont use it o_O, linear randomness, ew). That natural seems much better though. I don't use glyph of silence or cloudy attack or natural attack, so I'm really just trying to see how this update actually effects ME. lol.

Natural was worse this morning, but they made it better now. Yes, Cloudy is chance. And, yeah, the glyph damages at end of turn. Monsters just move off it or walk around. I thought it actually traveled with the feca, in a cross shape out from there, which would have been tactically brilliant and fun to use, but it's just a glyph like this:

|

_ _

|

The middle square has no glyph part. One space on each side, no diagonals.

Here's damage:

Poutch Ingball activates Glyph of Repulsion set by [Ros]SeraphX.

Poutch Ingball:-200 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-138 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-114 HP.

[Ros]SeraphX casts Glyph of Repulsion.

Poutch Ingball activates Glyph of Repulsion set by [Ros]SeraphX.

Poutch Ingball:-200 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-138 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-114 HP.

[Ros]SeraphX casts Glyph of Repulsion.

Poutch Ingball activates Glyph of Repulsion set by [Ros]SeraphX.

Poutch Ingball:-200 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-138 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-118 HP.

Not always the same, but consistent.

Stats:

[Ros]SeraphX : Vitality 15 (+1704), Wisdom 121 (+343), Strength 101 (+146), Intelligence 400 (+346), Chance 101 (+275), Agility 73 (+79) - Initiative 1521 (+513), AP 7 (+2), MP 3 (+1)

Here's damage changing after a few backlashes to buff my strength:

[Ros]SeraphX casts Backlash. Critical hit!

Poutch Ingball:-182 HP.

Poutch Ingball: -80 strength (3 turns)

[Ros]SeraphX: +80 strength (3 turns)

[Ros]SeraphX casts Glyph of Repulsion.

Poutch Ingball activates Glyph of Repulsion set by [Ros]SeraphX.

Poutch Ingball:-209 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-133 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-130 HP.

[Ros]SeraphX casts Glyph of Repulsion.

[Ros]SeraphX casts Backlash.

Poutch Ingball:-181 HP.

Poutch Ingball: -60 strength (3 turns)

[Ros]SeraphX: +60 strength (3 turns)

Poutch Ingball activates Glyph of Repulsion set by [Ros]SeraphX.

Poutch Ingball:-209 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-138 HP.

Poutch Ingball:-140 HP.

Note, all the damages seem to change, although I expected only the one related to earth might.

Edited by SeraphX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

o_O +/- 80 strength. Hax. I'm assuming they plan to change cloudy attacks damage range? Its inferior to bubble in almost every way, linear, 4 AP, lower damage. The only real difference is it can be used within the 3 range bubble can't be (but still, ew).

Screw repulsion glyph, give me BUFF GLYPHS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Repulsion glyph looks awesome to me, but you need to like tactical game play, for iop-heads its shit ofc.

Imagine a situation where you can lock a opponent on a corner (you have 10ap, and use 4ap staff), then you glyph under your feet and hit twice (every turn), the enemy can't run and takes damage from the glyph.

In a PvP situation, you can use cawwot spell to prevent release from the other player (if he don't have any other movement spell). If you have a panda in the group he can stab the feca and then is piece of cake to "abuse" this strategy (ofc its not effective against every class).

For dungeons like Tot and Bworker where people used to lock the bosses on corners with other monsters... now, they can glyph the enemy blocker and hit the boss.

Others ideas that i saw on other topics:

- using it on a agi sacrier to dmg all monsters around him.

- using it on yourself or a character/monster to force it moving away from that square (avoiding locks; making some monsters -which AI makes them stay close to each other- don't stay closer).

Certainly there is much more ways of use this glyph, these are just a few... come on, that damage for only 2ap recastable every turn is pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Screw repulsion glyph, give me BUFF GLYPHS.

OMG yes! I don't see why they haven't implemented any buff glyphs yet. I heard in Wakfu that Fecas are getting some healing glyph, which would be awesome. Maybe a +AP one too? :P

And I'm glad they realized that Natural Attack was a completely unnecessary nerf to an already weak-ass spell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seems its just to keep things from locking someone, rather than to do a huge amount of damage?

e.g. cast it on a sadida, and no monster is going to come up and end its turn next to them and locking them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would a chance feca be a viable long term build now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, although hybryizing is much more effctive now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine a situation where you can lock a opponent on a corner (you have 10ap, and use 4ap staff), then you glyph under your feet and hit twice (every turn), the enemy can't run and takes damage from the glyph.

Problem is, locking doesn't really exist anymore. Just a drop of agility is enough to dodge roll at least 1 square from even a pure agility character. And as feca has no map manipulation, don't expect to find an enemy stupid enough to waltz into a place they can't push you back from. Now throw repulsion glyph on a panda or something who can toss the enemy into said spot, it'd make sense. But pandas we are not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The less mp the enemy has, the less of a lock/dodge difference is required to keep them. We can take mp. We can equip +lock items. We can lock people on repulsion and we can use it to keep people off us. There's dozens of ways for me to use it with the people I regularly team up with and against the things I regularly fight.

Edited by graydoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is, locking doesn't really exist anymore. Just a drop of agility is enough to dodge roll at least 1 square from even a pure agility character. And as feca has no map manipulation, don't expect to find an enemy stupid enough to waltz into a place they can't push you back from. Now throw repulsion glyph on a panda or something who can toss the enemy into said spot, it'd make sense. But pandas we are not.

Every class have a map manipulation spell, its called RELEASE.

I remember years ago, a xelor that had a ego bigger as his brak wings, agressing everyone in bonta zaap as if he was the owner of the game, he agroed a friend of mine and then I joined to help him to kick his ass, then he had a friend that joined his side too... well, he was considered PK and all, and he positioned himself on a spot (from the old zaap bonta map) where I just released him, locked and put a cawwot behind myself. He became furious with that.. and he was a dagger xelor, without teleport to move out from there... and yes, he lost :lol:

Well, that story shows that even experienced players can do mistakes... besides, I don't think the AI will try to avoid possible "corner locking" situations.

So, its good for both PVP (more in group ofc) and PVM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't he had teleport?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't he had teleport?

Back in 2006 the xelor teleportation could only be used once per battle... and he already used it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in 2006 the xelor teleportation could only be used once per battle... and he already used it.

1 - My criticisms and observations are only re: PvM. I do not PvP.

2 - The situations you described are very narrow. My argument is that it is very hard to use and will not work frequently, which makes it questionable to invest so many spell points into. For example, if you had to choose between this and, say, Glyph of Silence or leveling Bubble to go with Natural Attack, your ROI will be better on the other spells, most likely. I am *not* arguing that there are no situations in which this is good.

3 - There are no viable feca builds which really lock enough monsters at the high end content to make this a reliable approach. You pretty much have to go with the Sacrier plan, which seems like the best case scenario. Even then, tons of high level content can push, swap, hop, etc. and usually not for many ap. Also, if you imagine the Sacrier using Swap, Attract and other spells to get the monsters positioned around itself in a cross pattern, this is spending enough AP that you might as well just be damaging them directly instead of relying on the glyph. I can imagine many ways in which this could be good, but my main concern is that in actual game play they will be relatively few and therefore hard to justify the cost.

4 - Simply making this work at the beginning of the turn would likely make it powerful and useful, but fair. Like a level 100 spell should be, in my opinion ;-)

5 - The most reliable value I can see getting out of this is the ability each turn to force monsters to move away from you at the end of the turn, which someone mentioned above. This means that if it's worth 2ap and without the Release cool down, you can get monsters to disengage, freeing you up to move or position better with staff (etc.). So I think this may prove to be a damage spell second but as the name implies a pseudo map-manip spell first and of most value to players who use AoE weapons. However, I can think of better ways of accomplishing this, such as making Teleport very short range, but usable once each turn for a low AP cost. Basically, a disengage spell. Or, making a glyph that, when cast, moves any creature on it to the outside of the glyph, whatever its shape. Things like that. More direct and reliable ways which are not reliant on the vagaries of the AI.

That said, I like the concept and I do plan to try rather fervently to use it well. If anyone has actual examples of situations in which they reliably got 10-15 spell points worth of value out of this in a variety of fight situations, we should share that and learn it and get better. That would be more useful than edge cases, although they are definitely also worth noting.

EDIT: Release + this costs a lot of spell points. I should also caveat that I'm not talking from the perspective of a diamond-eating maniac who can level any spell without sacrificing another one. Maybe this is a windmill slam once the shields are fused, but I'm talking about players who would decide between this, a shield or a ranged attack, for example. That makes a difference.

Edited by SeraphX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 - There are no viable feca builds which really lock enough monsters at the high end content to make this a reliable approach. You pretty much have to go with the Sacrier plan, which seems like the best case scenario. Even then, tons of high level content can push, swap, hop, etc. and usually not for many ap. Also, if you imagine the Sacrier using Swap, Attract and other spells to get the monsters positioned around itself in a cross pattern, this is spending enough AP that you might as well just be damaging them directly instead of relying on the glyph. I can imagine many ways in which this could be good, but my main concern is that in actual game play they will be relatively few and therefore hard to justify the cost.

My feca could pass 90 lock with trophies and I could swap stuff around to get even more. For anyone who doesn't want to go to that extreme then there's surely someone on their team who can lock unless there's 8 of them in CB set. That would suggest there are people who don't want locked and then you can spend 2ap to make sure they aren't trapped next turn. This spell is only an attack in a few situations. It's another shield. It's a 2ap barrier for any ally who requires it. Anything else is just being creative thanks to it's unique design. It does great damage for its ap cost and that's enough to let it do it's job against anyone who doesn't have armour buffs active themselves to pretty much bypass it. Any time you can force the enemy to stay on it is a bonus, and a gimmick that is possible to exploit with the right setup. It's sure a hell of a lot more effective than remission.

Edited by graydoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember that the majority of these changes are aimed at GROUP fighting. a feca 1v1 isn't really supposed to be using the new glyph to lock and tank people. it's a spell that in a GROUP has a lot of nice uses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd still say it's pretty limited. I'd rather have an attack... you know... attack instead of being a "hey monsters don't walk here" thing. But meh, it is called "Repulsion Glyph". I'm still kind of sad that it doesn't do damage on the start of the turn instead of the end, that would probably make it a lot more useful in terms of damage. But I'm sure it will find its usefulness.

This still doesn't quite answer the question of whether it's worth investing points. I mean sure it has its uses, but whats the point in leveling it? Is the range crappy at level 1? Is the AP cost not 2 at level 1? Basically, if you're just using it as a "stay away" type of thing, is there any need to level it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going for a standard Int/Chance set up with Soft Oak wand and this spell will pretty much guarantee that I can want whenever I want. Later I plan on going for a Strength/omni build with Kolosso set and Peccary which will give me enough lock to use this spell offencively too.

Overall I think it has a lot of potential but its not really a must level spell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going for a standard Int/Chance set up with Soft Oak wand and this spell will pretty much guarantee that I can want whenever I want. Later I plan on going for a Strength/omni build with Kolosso set and Peccary which will give me enough lock to use this spell offencively too.

Overall I think it has a lot of potential but its not really a must level spell.

You nailed it. I don't think it's a snap decision like Burning, but with a Wand, for example, it should be a really good supplement to leveling release for another 2ap way to push things back, etc. Staff too. If that's the route you want to take. I'm just saying that thinking of it primarily as a damage spell is wrong and that thinking of it as a good solo tool like BG is wrong. Feca is somewhat of a solo PvM class, but this is more for group, which is great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry... new glyph sucks balls... more than a thai hooker!

Useless crap for pvp as well as for pvm in epic levels... old glyph was way stronger. In epic-pvp no one cares for the 250 Dmg (with resists) that piece o`shit deals. Enemys can just walk away from that glyph... I want glyph of blindnes back, was our far strongest spell!

I accept the fact that the glyph may be quite nice for lower levels, but I don`t think I can ever use it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.