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Yrona

Ask a Mage

1402 posts in this topic
We may push the power above the saturated value throug leverageing "luck", though. We just take a risk, and if we fail and the power drops below the saturated value, we have to reach the saturated value again. This might be tedious and costly but it is certainly possible.

Then we start again and hope for a strike of successes. In fact you can challenge your luck and get an awesome item. But of course we shouldn't stress our luck too much and stop at a point before we have to restore too many AP, MP and range stats :)

I totally agree with Jeq's analysis, except what he calls the "saturated value" I would call the equilibrium point. The problem, I've found, is that the equilibrium point is often far below the normal stats on an item. There upward force on the item's stats--your success rate--is relatively constant. (That's a best case scenario; in fact it gets worse as the stats get better.) The downward force--stats lost when you fail--increases proportionally with the stats. The result is that items with very large stats have a much greater negative force than positive when they're in their normal stat range. I've noticed this is particularly a problem with high vitality items, just because one failure can lose you 20-30 stat points.

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Yes, this "equilibrium" point seems to be independend on the level of the item, but it's a function of the number of distinct stats.

The effect of this behavior is, as Plikt already pointed out, that it is more difficult to improve higher level items, since they have naturally more stats with higher values.

Fortunately, this could be easily "fixed" if Ankama whishes to do this: simply with higher level runes, that have a better gain/loss ratio. These runes are of course more expensive.

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Okay, just to make sure I'm about to go through the correct process for maging up my Apprenticeship Boots.

The VIT and WIS rolls were low. I am planning to mage up the WIS first. I assume it's a lower success % than VIT, and the lower success % would be better to tackle first.

My WIS currently sits at 17, the max is 25. I'd like to get that into the 20's. How many small wisdom runes would that take?

Thanks again you wonderful mages for all your help on this new profession and it's possibilities.

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Quick query, would there be any marked difference in maging an item from a set or an item without set bonuses?

Would that add to the item power (the hidden value of the set bonus) and skew calculations?

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Quick query, would there be any marked difference in maging an item from a set or an item without set bonuses?

Would that add to the item power (the hidden value of the set bonus) and skew calculations?

From my experience: no.

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um how do you get/make level 20/30 runes? D:

other than buying >_>

I believe MMT mentioned that Oni still drops higher level runes.

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Concerning the 1.5x maximum mage theory, I tried 20 times to get a Treering from +5 to +6 damage, all tries failed.

As an unnatural stat becomes natural as soon as it has been successfully maged onto an item, do stats reduced to 0 become unnatural?

I sure hope not, as a Gelano without AP would be impossible to repair. Would be fair though.

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I'm thinking of creating a jewlmage, but I still need to learn more before commiting the time to level jeweler and jewelmagus. <_<

1. If you have a single stat item, say a ring with +10 AGI, and you try to improve this AGI stat. When you fail will you lower this single stat you are working on (AGI) or is it just all the other stats that take the hit (in this case there is none)? Can you lower the stat you're trying to increase?

2. If you loose stats maging, will the item power of the item also decrease or will it be intact? This would definatly influence the possibilities of recovering from failures.

3. Think of the ring in the first paragraph with +10 AGI. Say you can loose this stat and it goes down to +-0 AGI. Will it become an "unnatural" stat?

4. If you have this ring with no stats on can you then mage another stat to it, say for instance CHA? I guess so, but how much CHA can you add now?

Sincerly,

partisan

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I'm thinking of creating a jewlmage, but I still need to learn more before commiting the time to level jeweler and jewelmagus. <_<

1. If you have a single stat item, say a ring with +10 AGI, and you try to improve this AGI stat. When you fail will you lower this single stat you are working on (AGI) or is it just all the other stats that take the hit (in this case there is none)? Can you lower the stat you're trying to increase?

2. If you loose stats maging, will the item power of the item also decrease or will it be intact? This would definatly influence the possibilities of recovering from failures.

3. Think of the ring in the first paragraph with +10 AGI. Say you can loose this stat and it goes down to +-0 AGI. Will it become an "unnatural" stat?

4. If you have this ring with no stats on can you then mage another stat to it, say for instance CHA? I guess so, but how much CHA can you add now?

Sincerly,

partisan

1. All stats including the one you tried to increase have a chance of being reduced (see above)

2. The items maximum stats remain the same.

3. That's also what I asked -/

4. Adding the first unnatural CHA is difficult, once that's done, it's a natural stat. How far you can raise it is dependent on the intrinsic max item power, i think.

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since hitting lvl 100 bow magus I notice there are now 3 slots, what is the 3rd slot for?

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since hitting lvl 100 bow magus I notice there are now 3 slots, what is the 3rd slot for?

It's for a signature rune, I believe.

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I've experimented with a ring that was stripped nearly bare by someone else. Seems like 0 stats stay natural.

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4. Adding the first unnatural CHA is difficult, once that's done, it's a natural stat. How far you can raise it is dependent on the intrinsic max item power, i think.

Can you raise the now natural stat to the same amount as the prior natural stat? Say you get that +10 AGI ring down to +-0 and then start filling up with CHA. Can I get a ring that is +10 CHA from the formerly AGI ring?

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hi. i don't know if this has been asked.. but i'll try anyway:

i have a fireforged wand of limbo (3 tries failed, 4. fail --> ap and range lost, 5. try = success)

it has now +1mp, +19 wis, +20 int and -52 str.

1. should i bother with trying to get that +1 ap (or even ap and range) back? how hard would that be? or would it be more likely to fail and lose even more stats?

2. and would it be possible to add some int, wis or str (without more stat loss)?

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2. and would it be possible to add some int, wis or str (without more stat loss)?

Yes, it is possible to add more wisdom, strength and int, but there is always, always, always a chance to fail and lose more stats.

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Yes, it is possible to add more wisdom, strength and int, but there is always, always, always a chance to fail and lose more stats.

well how high would that chance be? i know, it's a stupid question.. but estimated?

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... Can Dora hat be maged to +100 int ?

Edited by katesol

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The success rate above the max of an item, 80 in this case, is very, very low. It can happen from time to time, but mostly you will fail.

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The success rate above the max of an item, 80 in this case, is very, very low. It can happen from time to time, but mostly you will fail.

The easiest way to get past max, is to get lucky, when your 1 short of max, and a rune gives +2 instead of +1. I've found once you break that max it gets easier. Sit more failures then raising to max, but not as many as trying to get that first rune past max.

Additionally in response to some other posts. In my experiments/leveling I noticed that once I add an unnatural stat it does get easier to raise, however I don't think its considered natural at that point. 1) It still has lower success rate then the true natural stat. 2) On most rings and Amulets I can not push unnaturals stats to the same max as the original max stats. Example, I'm leveling my crafting on a Crackpot Amulet, using any rune that I have more then 1,500 of. May time I have brought stats down to 0 and added an unnatural stat, however I can never get that unnatural stat +15, with the exception of Str which will go to 20. I've put thousands of runes on to this amulet leveling from 62 - 98 and never has it go past those. However when I use Vit to level (original stat) I easily get it back to 50, and have been able to push it as far as 75 points.

Conclusion: Even from 0 Original stats are still easier to add and bring to max. Unnatural stats, do become easier after first success, but still not as easy as original stats. Unnatural stats will not raise as high as original stats. (possibly a few exceptions but I haven't found any yet.)

My one biggest question, is how the heck does XP work for maging??? I never get more then 300, but usually only get 100. But I see people post about getting 1000, 2000, and getting 300 on a regular basis. How does it work, whats it based on, and is it different between maging jobs?

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about how far u can push unnatural stats, i've seen +20 agi +1 int adventurer boots, that is quite a lot, and i've seen also screens of +1 ap +10 wisdom gelano maged on test server...

10 wisdom as unnatural stat seems good, as we as 30 agi, still on another gelano...

Edited by vladthemage

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Regarding adding additionally stats to a Gelano:

I managed to add a few Agi, Str, Wis, ect. while on the test server. But IMHO its not worth the effort and not worth to take the risk of loosing the AP adding that kind of simple stats. Adding 10 points of simple stats was already far above the "equilibrium point". That means, if you would apply an infinitive amount of Agi runes, you may get 5 to 7 Agi added to a 1 AP Gelano. Above that, you need to leverage "luck".

More interesting is adding crits and range to a Gelano. Adding 1 crit or 1 range to a standard Gelano has a pretty good success rate - around 10%. It's worth trying it -- but you should also know where you get the AP runes in case you loose it. Recovering a lost AP fails around 50% as well, so yo better optain a few.

Notice also, that -- as always -- there is 10% probability to loose the AP after any fail that happens. Notice also, that after adding a Crit or a Range to a stripped Gelano it's impossible to add the lost AP again.

After succesfully adding one crit or one range to a Gelano, it's impossible to add more crits respectively range.

For verifying this, I used far more than 100 attempts in all cases with equal start conditions.

Edited by Jeg

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I have a question for the Jewelmagi out there:

After much pain and anguish, I can now use workbench for forgemaging jewelry. Unfortunately, I have yet to find an item-rune combination that will produce anything, or even give me 1 exp. Can someone provide a few item-rune combinations that I could work on to gain some levels? Thanks in advance :D

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As a starting Jewelmage, you can mage items with a lvl that is maximal your lvl x2... which is 2x1 = 2 atm.

Try maging an adventurer ring.

Any item with a lvl lower than half your lvl will not give you XP, so you'll need to change items often at first.

For XP, it does not matter which rune you use, I think.

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Any item with a lvl lower than half your lvl will not give you XP, so you'll need to change items often at first.

I appreciate your input, but this statement is incorrect. I have gone from level 3 to level 84 using nothing but a level 1 Nimbly Ring (the same one for all combines) and many thousands of Rune Ages (Level 10). It gave me 50 exp per success at level 3, and continues to do so at 84.

Someone really needs to come up with a comprehensive guide; it seems like the knowledge is out there but no one's willing to do it. Perhaps in a month or two I'll know enough to make a useful wiki addition.

One thing I have noticed, however, is that my success rate has not noticeably improved in over 50 levels. From what I've seen so far, the implied success percentages are either completely broken, or there is a more complex formula for success than is currently known.

Edited by darksprocket

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