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Yrona

Ask a Mage

1402 posts in this topic

OKAY, im going to repeat myself from before. I believe that the +AP and +MP runes are PURELY for adding a lost AP or MP stat.

For example, you are maging a feudala ammy, you fail and lose the +AP :wub: :wub:

You buy an AP rune (cheaper than a feudala ammy) and attempt to fix the ap (good success rate adding lost AP back to the item)

You are really wasting your money and risking your equips attempting to mage AP runes as unnatural stats

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Trying to catch on to this whole maging deal. I've read all the posts in multiple threads and would invite any responses to the following:

Let's say I'm working my way towards a weapon that requires more chance than I currently have. Would it be smart to take a low priced item such as a Farle's Magic Bracelet and hit it like 400 times with chance runes?

Could I also just toss every rune I have into it at once and hope for the best? Let's say I have 100 runes that add a variey of stats such as intel, agi, chance, wis and str.

Would I more than likely come out with a useless Farle's Magic Bracelet?

As you can see I'm kind of lost in regards to maging. Any help or clarification of the process would be great. I'm yet to really find a post that does so.

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Let's say I'm working my way towards a weapon that requires more chance than I currently have.

What you have for chance and what the weapon requirements are does not matter to the forgemage.

Could I also just toss every rune I have into it at once and hope for the best? Let's say I have 100 runes that add a variey of stats such as intel, agi, chance, wis and str.

It just doesn't work the way you are thinking. You merge 1 rune at a time. With every failure, all of the other stats may decrease. The higher the stat, the greater the amount of decrease there is with a fail. There's a practical maximum on stat gain after you get past 30 or 40 without using higher powered runes (Pa, and Ra).

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me and diabolique were experimenting yesterday with silimelle's rings. we couldn't push it past 29 wis, but even so, that's pretty nice.

Same day I also worked on one for a guildie, he wanted me to keep going even though I couldnt get past 29 either. I did notice that the ring has a max -10 str / -10 intel no matter how much you fail. I imagine most items with - stats, have a max neg level too.

I have a question about negative stats. I'll use same ring for simplicity, would adding intel and str runes reduce the -stat? if so would reducinging past -5 (say -1 or 0) be considered unnatural, and thus have the higher failure rate?

Also, on the creation of runes.. with 8 slots to shatter, is that more for convience? (i.e. throw in 8 different items in random quanitys and get same number of runes) or are there actually some kind of recipes.. like Item a + item b has a better chance to give you rune X then either of them alone. Also since you can mass shatter like any other mass crafting... is thier any difference between putting a stack of 100 items in and shattering or doing 1 at a time and walking away?

I hope my questions make sense.

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I just started leveling my wand carvemage and after some starting problems I'm now at level 30-something, but I'm having problems figuring out what XP to expect.

I started out with the Initiat's wand and got a steady 100 XP per successful mage with a successrate of about 25-40% (rough estimate)

When I got a little higher in level I tried maging a Small hour wand, but the successrate seems well under 10% and I only got 10 XP.

After some more Initiat's wands I tried maging Sylvian wand. Thes successrate is much higher than on the Hour wand, but again I only get 10 XP per success?!?

Seems to me the Initiat's wand is the way to go, but I can't figure out what XP to expect; some times I get 100 XP, some times I get 300 XP and a few times I even got 1000 XP :wub:

Have enyone figured out how XP formula works?

So far I've been doing small Cha and Wis runes in combination.

One possibility that seems likely is that you get more XP when the probability of success is lower, but again that's just a hunch on my part. :wub:

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

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Same day I also worked on one for a guildie, he wanted me to keep going even though I couldnt get past 29 either. I did notice that the ring has a max -10 str / -10 intel no matter how much you fail. I imagine most items with - stats, have a max neg level too.

I have a question about negative stats. I'll use same ring for simplicity, would adding intel and str runes reduce the -stat? if so would reducinging past -5 (say -1 or 0) be considered unnatural, and thus have the higher failure rate?

Also, on the creation of runes.. with 8 slots to shatter, is that more for convience? (i.e. throw in 8 different items in random quanitys and get same number of runes) or are there actually some kind of recipes.. like Item a + item b has a better chance to give you rune X then either of them alone. Also since you can mass shatter like any other mass crafting... is thier any difference between putting a stack of 100 items in and shattering or doing 1 at a time and walking away?

I hope my questions make sense.

Yes, it makes sense. I'm going to use Kryst O'boul as an example, which has between -11 and -20 vitality naturally. The maximum -vit it can have is -40, or double the highest natural value. Anything between -40 and -11 has the same success rates. If you have a -40 vit one and you merge a rune vi, it will go to -39 vit (used to be it would go to -40 vit +1 vit, but they fixed that bug). If you merge enough rune vi to get it to, say -10 vit, that's considered an unnatural stat and the success rates go down.

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Still hoping for a calculation on this :wub:

another thread pointed me to:

http://dofus.wikia.com/wiki/Item_power

so now how do i figure out the rate for adding vi runes to a Bow in Treechnid Root

+1 ap, +15 wis, -66 vit

or

1000 + 45 = 1045

now what? Still not quite sure how to determine the rate of sucess (or failure)

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another thread pointed me to:

http://dofus.wikia.com/wiki/Item_power

so now how do i figure out the rate for adding vi runes to a Bow in Treechnid Root

+1 ap, +15 wis, -66 vit

or

1000 + 45 = 1045

now what? Still not quite sure how to determine the rate of sucess (or failure)

You're wandering into uncharted waters, there. Nobody knows how to determine the rate of success, though mages are working hard in the forgemage success rates thread to try to get a handle on it. Hopefully, one of the bow mages out there will be able to help you with this specific one, if you really need to know and aren't just using it as an example.

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thx :wub:

yeah, hopefully i'll be in that thread soon enough (lvl 80+ magus now), and really only took it up for maging that one bow :P

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Say I want to mage a few more health points to my +220 octo. What would be the success rate and what rune would work best?

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As I'm going up in Mage lvl it's taking longer and longer to gain lvls, obviously, but is there any way to get more XP from a successful Crafting? Does working on a 2-Slot Twiggy take longer to lvl than working on say a 5 or 6 Slot Item?

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Can you remove negative stats? My Kryst has way below normal negative vitality, do I just use Rune Vi's to bring that back to normal or even zero? Thanks.

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Can you remove negative stats? My Kryst has way below normal negative vitality, do I just use Rune Vi's to bring that back to normal or even zero? Thanks.

yes u can, i brought my vit on kryst to 0 then maged to almost perfect stats the rest and vitality come back to -10. still better than -11-20...

though any vit over -11 is considered unnatural bonus...

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How should you recover lost stats due to element forging? Is it better to use lots of low level runes (+1-2), or a couple of high level runes (+5-10)? Also is there any guide on what items to crush for what runes?

Edited by saintjust

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How should you recover lost stats due to element forging? Is it better to use lots of low level runes (+1-2), or a couple of high level runes (+5-10)?

The best way to do it is the following:

Supposing you're recovering the stats of a maged Fake Claw. The stats for Strength, let's say, is +21. The minimum bonus for Strength in a Fake Claw is +31, meaning you're gonna have an easy time maging it back to +31 (i think it's 94% chance). So, use low level runes until you're close to +31, but NOT +31 yet. Then use a high-level rune. You're gonna have a lower rate of success, but on a success, it means less maging on the future.

Using high-level runes inside the normal value of the bonus (on the previous example, say your fake claw is +34 strength. Inside the +31-45 value, so it's harder to mage) is pretty hard, making it safer for you to use low-level runes.

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A really good trend im seeing is peopel are starting to trust mages more. I used to only ever get people asking to mage crap items, but i got the pleasure of maging some nice things yesterday, like Smoothich (sp?) and stuff. Its definately a good thing for us professionals ^^

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The best way to do it is the following:

Supposing you're recovering the stats of a maged Fake Claw. The stats for Strength, let's say, is +21. The minimum bonus for Strength in a Fake Claw is +31, meaning you're gonna have an easy time maging it back to +31 (i think it's 94% chance). So, use low level runes until you're close to +31, but NOT +31 yet. Then use a high-level rune. You're gonna have a lower rate of success, but on a success, it means less maging on the future.

Using high-level runes inside the normal value of the bonus (on the previous example, say your fake claw is +34 strength. Inside the +31-45 value, so it's harder to mage) is pretty hard, making it safer for you to use low-level runes.

Many thanks for the info.

Edited by saintjust

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Just for the record. It is possible to mage +AP onto an item that does not have AP as it's natural 'bonus'.

I have a pair of fire-forged citrus daggers on the test server that are just +1ap.

Didn't ask if he fireforged them first or added to AP first. Sorry :P)

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Nice thread, I've read over the four pages and received a lot of insight on smithmaging.

Small question, is there a rune that adds +summons, +dmgs, AP lost for target?

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Rune Summo for +Summons

Rune Do for + damages

No AP lost for the target runes

Edited by arcynum

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Is it true that you lose some damage output of a weapon (not +/% damage bonus) if you fail rune enchanting 3 times? I have failed 2 times after raising vit from 10 to 57 (int 24->20, agi 25->21), and I don't want to risk losing damage for further enchanting if you cannot recover lost damage also.

Edited by saintjust

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Is it true that you lose some damage output of a weapon (not +/% damage bonus) if you fail rune enchanting 3 times? I have failed 2 times after raising vit from 10 to 57 (int 24->20, agi 25->21), and I don't want to risk losing damage for further enchanting if you cannot recover lost damage also.

Like you mean, my captain chafer daggers do 15-22 damage?

That doesnt drop at all, just the stat bonus's of the item

Edited by arcynum

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Like you mean, my captain chafer daggers do 15-22 damage?

That doesnt drop at all, just the stat bonus's of the item

Thanks.

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First off, thanks to you all for figuring this stuff out and letting the rest of us know. I'm wondering if its possible to get more powerful runes by shattering an item. I've tried crushing a few things and all I've gotten are the lowest lvl runes for whatever stat they had. So can you get higher powered runes from shattering an item, and if so, does anyone know how you can figure out what power runes you'll get from an item? thanks!

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The best way to do it is the following:

Supposing you're recovering the stats of a maged Fake Claw. The stats for Strength, let's say, is +21. The minimum bonus for Strength in a Fake Claw is +31, meaning you're gonna have an easy time maging it back to +31 (i think it's 94% chance). So, use low level runes until you're close to +31, but NOT +31 yet. Then use a high-level rune. You're gonna have a lower rate of success, but on a success, it means less maging on the future.

Using high-level runes inside the normal value of the bonus (on the previous example, say your fake claw is +34 strength. Inside the +31-45 value, so it's harder to mage) is pretty hard, making it safer for you to use low-level runes.

Honestly, I doubt this is always the best way.

Firstly, there is the question where you get the high level runes. Secondly, whether you should use the regular runes or the old higher level runes depends on the ratio of gain/loss and of a certain aspect of luck, which I would call the "good luck factor" (explanation follows).

Then, when you have some sound experiences a bunch of data that you rely on, you may use a cost formula to decide which method you want to choose. This might mean, that in order to achieve a certain goal, that for every distinct state of the item you might use a different rune, in order to optimize the costs.

Since, the methods applied all depend heavily on -- well, say "luck" -- you never get a certain "value", rather a "probability" how much a certain goal might cost. *sigh*

The ratio of gain/loss will be determined by the success rate of each rune and the amount of gain and the amount of loss. The success rate and the gain depends on the type of rune, while the loss depends on the number of distinct stats of the item.

You see, it becomes already pretty complex. You may see however that a high level rune that success rate is that much lower than the succes rate of regular rune may not pay off. On a failure it reduces the amount of all stats, and hence the gain/loss ratio may be lower than that of a regular rune.

Well, in order to explain the "good luck factor" I need to explain how maging affects the items:

When you apply a rune, the typical success rate is about 50% to 94%. Say, for runes that improve simple stats it is 90%. This means, in practice you will have 9 success and 1 failure in average. Now suppose you get always 9 success then 1 failure. The "power" of the item will increase during the first 9 rune enchants and then falling down due to the failure to a certain amount. Then it again will increase 9 times and again falling down 1 time and so force. If you draw a diagram you will get a shape that looks like a "sawtooth".

At a certain point, you may notice that gain/loss balances out and that applying further runes wil not improve the item anymore. You still "produce" this sawtooth curve, but where the avarege value is not increasing anymore. Lets say this item has reached a stable state - its power is "saturated".

However, there is still the possibility to gain more power than the average which denotes the saturated power. How? Well, just look at the sawtooth curve, and you see how! When we reached a power that is above that of the saturated item, we just have to stop applying runes before it failes and the power will drop below again. Unfortunately, we cannot predict when the rune will fail actually :o

We may push the power above the saturated value throug leverageing "luck", though. We just take a risk, and if we fail and the power drops below the saturated value, we have to reach the saturated value again. This might be tedious and costly but it is certainly possible.

Then we start again and hope for a strike of successes. In fact you can challenge your luck and get an awesome item. But of course we shouldn't stress our luck too much and stop at a point before we have to restore too many AP, MP and range stats :P

Edited by Jeg

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