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Gravestorm

Monster Aggro Changes

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 The area in which monsters attack has been gradually reduced over the years (and is now down to a single cell around each monster), but the monster attack mechanic has not changed since the game first came out. Update 2.45 will introduce a new system for managing monster aggression which we hope will be less frustrating and easier to understand.

 

Our primary goal: Making exploration exciting

Monster attacks in DOFUS are generally seen as a useless constraint. While there may be valid criticisms of the way in which it is currently applied, we still believe that a good monster aggression system is an interesting gameplay mechanic.
 
DOFUS presents an open world in which characters can move about freely without strict constraints (e.g. there are very few level restrictions on character access to various areas). However, it is difficult to make exploration exciting when characters can move through any area right from the beginning of the game. We like the idea that certain areas may be dangerous for beginning characters, that venturing into those areas represents a significant risk, and that by leveling up, characters can gradually become powerful enough to explore ever more dangerous areas.
 
Having areas that are dangerous for low- to mid-level characters is a good way to make discovering the different areas of the game a more gradual process. It also allows us to ensure that not just any character (unless they are willing to accept a higher level of difficulty) can have access to quests or resources that are primarily intended for higher-level characters.
 
Whenever possible, we want to avoid imposing strict constraints on access to different areas based on character level; we prefer to make virtually all areas accessible to all characters, as long as they are willing to face the associated risks.
 

How the new system works

We wanted to make the attack system more dynamic. From now on, standing still will put characters in danger, and running will be the best way to avoid aggressive monsters.
 
Here's how monster attacks will work in the new system:

  • Detection: Monsters have a field of vision (between 2 and 4 cells; these parameters may continue to change). When a character enters this field of vision, an attack may occur.
  • Evaluation: By default, virtually all monsters in the game will be able to attack characters if the difference between the monster's level and the character's level is sufficiently large. If this difference is greater than 50 levels, the monster will attempt to attack the character (e.g. a monster at level 140 will attempt to attack a character at level 80). The number of levels that triggers an attack may change based on the results of our tests and your feedback.
  • Attempted attack: If the target evaluation condition is met, and if the character is within the monster's field of vision (i.e. within a few cells of it) for more than 3 seconds, then a battle will start. As soon as a monster detects a potential target that it might choose to attack, a small symbol will appear above it to warn players that it's time to get out of there! The field of vision for attack purposes is determined by the leader of a group of monsters.
monster-aggro-devblog.gif

 
A character who keeps moving should therefore be able to easily avoid monster attacks. We intend to take full advantage of this more flexible new system to make certain areas of the game dangerous for characters who aren't attentive enough, or who aren't supposed to be there in the first place (too big a difference between the monsters' level and that of the characters).
 
This system resolves the problems that players sometimes encountered in tunnels and narrow areas: it will no longer be necessary to wait for monsters to move, as long as you don't stay in one place on the map for too long if the monsters there are inclined to attack your character.
 
When a group of monsters is potentially about to attack your character, a specific symbol will appear when moving the cursor over that group of monsters.

monster-aggro-devblog2.gif

 

Highly aggressive monsters

Certain monsters will always be aggressive (such as Wabbits or Bworks), regardless of the character's level. This mode will be used in areas where we want exploration to be more difficult and dangerous.
 
Most monsters will only be aggressive towards characters whose level is far too low for the given area. This approach lets us discourage exploration (without banning it outright) in areas that are not appropriate for the character's strength and abilities.
 
With the current parameters (with the rule that triggers attacks when there is a 50-level difference between monster and character), characters at level 150 or above will no longer be attacked by the majority of the classic monsters.
 

Monster movement

Monsters' behavior outside of combat will also be modified: monsters will persistently (but slowly) try to approach characters walking through their part of the map. It will therefore be important not to stop in one place for too long on a map that has monsters that might attack your character. The frequency of monsters' movement outside of combat has not changed.
 

Future changes

The parameters described in this article may change in the course of the tests you'll be running in the beta phase for Update 2.45.
 
We welcome your feedback on your experience with the new system.
 

Questions

Can harvests be interrupted?

Harvests can be interrupted by monster attacks. You will have to be careful when sending a low-level character to gather resources in significantly higher-level areas.
 
However, the delay between detection by a monster and the start of an attack should be long enough for attentive harvesters to avoid most attacks.
 
We allow aggressive monsters to interrupt harvests in order to prevent characters (using the action queue) from harvesting freely on maps that have monsters which are supposed to attack them.
 

Why aren't there any consumables or Achievements to make characters immune to monster attacks?

We believe that attacks by aggressive monsters can be a useful mechanic for making exploration more exciting. We don't want certain characters to be able to bypass this mechanic completely in areas where we want it to apply consistently.
 
We do not rule out the possibility of eventually letting characters use Achievements or consumables to protect themselves from attacks, but we do not want to use these as generic mechanisms.
 

How do monsters decide which characters to attack?

A monster may detect multiple characters to attack in its field of vision. The first character it attacks will then be the first one it noticed; in case of a tie, it will attack the lowest-level character. Let's face it… these monsters are just not nice :]

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Playerbase says monster aggression is annoying.

 

- Makes monster aggression even more annoying. 

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It's a no from me

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Now people will afk inside their haven bags and the game will look even emptier. Or maybe not, bots will be free to roam everywhere, since they don't mind moving like crazy without staying in the same place for 3 seconds.

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2 hours ago, ElMatematico said:

Now people will afk inside their haven bags and the game will look even emptier.

Try that in Dimensions.

 

Now we'll get to relive the good old days of afking in challenges with team-mates to avoid stroken/wing monster aggro's.

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I know. Also RIP daily sufokia quests. And probably resting between dungeon rooms. And reading whatever text they put in quests if the NPC is in an aggro zone. And having lag with multiple accounts if the mob is near the map border.

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So now ALL monsters aggro if the level difference is 50+ ???

 

Is 50 the level difference required between 1 single monsters and a character, or the whole mob level ? 

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Are you all lvl 200? It says "characters of level 150 or above will no longer be attacked by the majority of the classic monsters". Isn't that good or am i understanding something wrong? (yes i read the changelog). 

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4 hours ago, Gravestorm said:
  • Evaluation: By default, virtually all monsters in the game will be able to attack characters if the difference between the monster's level and the character's level is sufficiently large. If this difference is greater than 50 levels, the monster will attempt to attack the character (e.g. a monster at level 140 will attempt to attack a character at level 80). The number of levels that triggers an attack may change based on the results of our tests and your feedback.
  • Attempted attack: If the target evaluation condition is met, and if the character is within the monster's field of vision (i.e. within a few cells of it) for more than 3 seconds, then a battle will start. As soon as a monster detects a potential target that it might choose to attack, a small symbol will appear above it to warn players that it's time to get out of there! The field of vision for attack purposes is determined by the leader of a group of monsters.

 

(^:

CNIZ5bV.png

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It looks fine to me, just don't afk in high level areas for long as a low level.

We no longer get stuck behind mobs and have to wait for them to move for ages.

If there are mobs high enough level to aggro you as a level 200, I admit it could easily become annoying, but it does make it more engaging and imo it's at least still better than before, especially when taking into consideration the fact that the majority of mobs won't aggro you at all now.

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1 hour ago, Topmaster said:

Are you all lvl 200? It says "characters of level 150 or above will no longer be attacked by the majority of the classic monsters". Isn't that good or am i understanding something wrong? (yes i read the changelog). 

Some monsters will still aggro regardless of level, like bworks and wabbits. It's reasonable to suspect that "some monsters" are exactly the same as the current aggresive monsters. It would make most of Frigost annoying, as well as merkator zone

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26 minutes ago, ElMatematico said:

Some monsters will still aggro regardless of level, like bworks and wabbits. It's reasonable to suspect that "some monsters" are exactly the same as the current aggresive monsters. It would make most of Frigost annoying, as well as merkator zone

Oh, that's not what I'd read it to mean at all.

Even if that is the case, I think it's still a step up from all of those monsters aggroing all the time, even if its worse than we'd hoped for.

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Quote

Our primary goal: Making exploration exciting

 

So then they did the opposite?????

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Aggressive area reward of 4 Chests from Treasure Hunts will be removed.

 

Monsters won't aggro while a character is in a dialogue with an NPC and in dungeons.

 

Most monsters will stop aggroing characters when they reach Level 150.

 

Some more clarification on how aggro will work:

  • When a character first pops into a map, they have a period of aggression invulnerability, to prevent characters from being jumped without a chance to avoid it.
  • Monsters cannot start actively searching for your character to aggro until they are within three cells of the character, and you have several seconds to move once that eye icon shows up.
  • Aggro monsters don't sprint directly at your character as soon as you hit the map. Think about how often monsters move when they're on the map right now - perhaps 1 to 4 cells every 15-30 seconds or so. That's about how slowly they'll move towards your character in 2.45. The first gif in the devblog makes it look more dramatic because it was carefully timed to make it visually interesting. It took 30-45 seconds of waiting to get that mob close enough to start searching for the character.

monster-aggro-example.gif

Edited by Gravestorm
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Invest in rose of sands now so you can buy the lakeside palaceMHtaepi.png

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uh oh ...

Fk1OocO.png

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I've tested this unvoluntarily (on the test server) by stepping out of the lake palace door. I was insta-aggroed by koalak mobs. The second a fight finished, thanks to the usual lag, I was aggroed by the next mob. This went on for about 20 fights or so, before I got lucky and managed to hot-key a recall pot. My level did not protect me from those pesky koalaks. I find the overall idea interesting but the current implementation is total BS. There should be an extended truce period after the first aggro or the trigger times should be much longer than they are now.

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@Topmaster @Sommanker @ElMatematico @SamTheKing I asked about the "Certain monsters will always be aggressive" part and that was the reply:

 

> Are all current areas with aggressive monsters gonna be high-aggressive areas? Frigost 2+3, Eltneg Wood, cemeteries, etc?

 

> In a nutshell: yes. There may be a few adjustments here and there, but all of the areas you mentioned will be high-aggressive areas.

 

They need to remove the highly aggressive version and make them all behave the same. And for endgame, where the 50 level gap doesn't exist, give us some achievement/kill count that makes them stop attacking us. The old system was disliked by many but at least it was easy to avoid getting attacked with some patience. If @--VU--'s story is repeating itself (and someone on the OF mentioned that they were attacked during their login wait) then this needs to be changed ASAP.

 

I'm glad they decided to change the aggression system (although I didn't really mind the old one, I like Wabbits and Koalaks) but in literally all other parts of the game, with the exception of wing/koth attacks, the user usually has a chance to avoid something by doing nothing. You do nothing and you won't accidentally start a quest fight. you do nothing and you don't accidentally sell all your stuff. you do nothing and aggressive monsters just ignore you.

 

I understand that they wanna keep low-level characters from exploring beyond their level (which is actually a cool idea) but the highly aggressive version punishes players for lagging, for logging into the game (or logging out on the wrong map, which might be caused by a maintenance/server issue, mind you!), for stepping out of our house!

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I conducted another test. I ran 4 chars into the new area. Monsters there are aggro. Running as fast as I could, I made it half way through the third map in before all 4 were aggroed, some on the 4th some of the 3rd map. One of the chars got lucky and won his solo fight, but of course he was insta-aggroed by a big mob right afterwards and was kindly informed that he couldn't use a recall pot in this phase of the fight. This is unplayable.

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It was obvious that aggresive monsters were changed to highly aggresive, the whole concept and their motivation is THAT stupid. Connection issues will almost surely make this dumb idea never happen, unless Ankama is in suicide mode.

For the record: your character logs in before the login screen fades out and you see the map; this includes the screen freezing at 50% or whatever arbitrary number the current version of the bug displays. If your internet connection fails, your character(s) stays connected serverwise sometimes even for minutes. In some cases, this ocurrs even when closing the window instead of logging out manually. There, now yo can get AFK aggroed when logging in or out, or just having crappy internet.

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Well, after spending 10 mins on beta, I've now experienced it for myself.

I can imagine the devs discussing this at a meeting.

Dev A: People are saying monster aggro is too annoying. We should probably fix that. Any ideas?

Dev B: How about we make all monsters aggressive, instead of only some of them? And then make it so that players can't even go to the toilet safely without going into their haven bag first?

Dev C: We don't want to annoy the high-levels when in areas they barely ever walk through anyway, so maybe we should make lower level monsters not attack higher levels.

Dev D: We don't want to go that far. At least some monsters should always attack high levels no matter what.

Dev A: Well, this sounds good to me. Let's get to work!

 

Edited by Sommanker
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I think they should add a few moments of invulnerability after an aggro and when loggin in at a hostile area, that would fix so much.

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