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halkreen

Sink Calculator (2.XX)

Hi there,

 

I created an account to share this with you lads, hope it'll be helpful.

Read the instructions and make a copy of the sheets !

If you have questions or w/e, ask away.

 

As @ReaperSurm mentionned, this is probably for beginners that want to put a number on the "+sink/-sink"

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u_mnqnOdYt3gwUVMryOJD_c5bBAc75IFALQEbOAPVwo/edit?usp=sharing

 

EDIT : Weight updated. Many thanks to @EUPHORIA and @ReaperSurm for the heads up !!!

EDIT2 : Minor text fix (Loss > Sink added)

EDIT3 : Changed the placeholder examples to @ReaperSurm examples, and it displays the correct sink. Hope it works fine now! Thanks for your wisdom, magus friends <3 I'll try to figure out the special cases of negative values

Edited by halkreen

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1. When an items stat falls off, it gains sink. You have the column headed as "Loss".

 

Value Element Loss Value Element Loss Value Element Loss Value Element Loss Value Element Loss Rune Weight SINK
-5 Vitality 1 -2 Prospection 6     0     0     0 Pa Pow 6 1

 

2. On the side you have a column entitled "Weight in loss".

 

Im legit a pretty fking amazing magus, just look through gallery + ask rushians. But this just doesn't make sense in the slightest.

If you are referring to one's weight when it is lost from an item, it is exactly the same as its weight. If an item has a negative state (e.g. TF amulet, the power/weight of a cri res drops from 2 --> 1, until -3 or -4 or some shit.)

 

In all my years of maging, i've never heard of a "Weight in loss" and i've never used any of those values in correspondence to maging...

??????????????????

 

3. Your normal weight of stats is terribly wrong...

Went through and corrected some of the stuff. 

Even the list on wikipedia is more updated than this?? 

You are using the right values in your formula, so i dunno wtf is going on. You are using a list you copy/pasted and claiming its your own, but then using different values for stats? e.g. you say vit is 7.5power / Ra Vit = 0.15 power / 1 vit. You dropped 13 vit in the second line = 1.95 sink (according to your own list) though you rightly display it was 2.6 (meaning power of a ra vit = 10). 

 

Rune Weight
Ap Ga 100
Mp Ga 90
Range 50-->51
Summo 30
Cri 10
Hea 10
Fire Res Per 6
Air Res Per 6
Earth Res Per 6
Water Res Per 6
Neutral Res Per 6
Pa Ap Res 21
Pa Mp Res 21
Pa Ap Red 21
Pa Mp Red 21
Ap Res 7
Mp Res 7
Ap Red 7
Mp Red 7
Pa Loc 12
Pa Dod 12
Dod 4
Loc 4
Dam 20
Pa Air Dam 15
Pa Earth Dam 15
Pa Neutral Dam 15
Pa Psh Dam 15
Pa Fire Dam 15
Pa Tra 15
Pa Cri Dam 15
Pa Water Dam 15
Psh Dam 5
Air Dam 5
Earth Dam 5
Neutral Dam 5
Fire Dam 5
Dam Ref 10
Cri Dam 5
Water Dam 5
Tra 5
Pa Cri Res 15-->6
Pa Psh Res 15-->6
Earth Res 2
Neutral Res 2
Psh Res 5-->2
Fire Res 2
Air Res 2
Cri Res 5-->2
Water Res 2
Ra Tra Per 20
Ra Pow 20
Ra Wis 30
Pa Tra Per 6
Pa Prospe 9
Pa Pow 6
Pa Wis 9
Wis 3
Pow 2
Prospe 3
Tra Per 2
Hunting 0-->5?
Ra Stre 10
Ra Ini 10
Ra Int 10
Ra Vit 7.5-->10
Ra Pod 25-->10?
Ra Agi 10
Ra Cha 10
Pa Ini 3
Pa Cha 3
Pa Stre 3
Pa Pod 7.5-->wrong
Pa Int 3
Pa Vit 2.5-->3
Pa Agi 3
Ini 1-->0.1
Int 1
Pod 2.5-->wrong
Vit 0.75 --> 1
Agi 1
Cha 1
Stre 1

 

 

Don't want to be a dick, but you kind of wasted your time. 

It's nice that you want to help people, and show then how to count sink.

But despite being able to count sink in my sleep, this stuff doesn't make sense.

Not to mention the fact that counting sink for beginners is basically pointless unless 30+ power stats drop off.

Once you become better at maging, you'll be able to squeeze the most out of the 0.5 - 2 sink you have left over, or whatever it may be, but again, for beginners (who this is aimed at, im presuming [cuz no good magus would spend 127 hours putting in data for a sink mage], it is unneeded.) 

 

You need to decide who your target demographic is, and refine your product. 

 

1. New magus' (Because good magus' wont even need it)

2. Break down what maging it, how it works etc.

3. Create a separate tab that will list all values of the runes, power only. (If you mention "weight in loss" i'll hunt you the fk down).

4. You have a blank spreadsheet that the user can use to calculate their sink. 

You'll ideally want to work with say:

 

+10 Agi, -3  Lock, +Sink 

+1 Lock, -1 AP, + Sink

(then they input their own runes).

 

So you basically retrace the rune prior to the one causing a large power rune to fall off.

In this example, you'd do 

+10Agi (-10 sink), -3 lock (+12 sink) = +2 sink remaining.

+1 Lock (-4 sink), -1 AP (+100 sink) = +2 - 4 + 100 = 98 sink.

 

~~~~~~~~~

Inb4 longest imps post ever

Edited by ReaperSurm
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Hi, and thanks for the feedback :)

 

I'll try to take in account all of what you said here.

And ofc i'm targeting "new" magus, since i'm pretty sure every experienced magus is able to do it "in your sleep" ;)

 

I posted it on reddit at first then someone ask me to post it on imps since it might be useful for other people.

I never (willingly) claimed it was my own values of rune weight, but I admit I had some troubles finding decent official-ish values.

 

I'll update it this afternoon to correct the mistakes (even though you guys might not need it ^^)

 

Thanks for the answer!!!

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6 hours ago, ReaperSurm said:

2. On the side you have a column entitled "Weight in loss".

 

Im legit a pretty fking amazing magus, just look through gallery + ask rushians. But this just doesn't make sense in the slightest.

If you are referring to one's weight when it is lost from an item, it is exactly the same as its weight. If an item has a negative state (e.g. TF amulet, the power/weight of a cri res drops from 2 --> 1, until -3 or -4 or some shit.)


Negative stats, such as negative critical resistance on Treadfast amulet, cost double less sink as long as they're negative. Moment you try to turn negative to positive it goes back to it's normal sink value. So, once you try to reach 0+ (in this case critical resistance) runes sink goes back to it's normal (from 1 back to 2 sink). Not just for this item, but any item. Once you try to do -1>0 runes sink is being on it's maximum.

Also, not sure if I understood your sink calculating, but if some rune (example: Range- 51 sink) drops you'll gain as much sink as that rune has. So not 40, not 50, but 51. It's the same for every single rune.

And as Reaper said, your sink on runes is terribly wrong. Some are correct, but a lot of them aren't. Here's a list I used to use and a list I used to update each time they changed something (within years Critical Hits sink, Heals sink and now, most recently, Vitality sink):
 

Maging Dofus.png

Edited by EUPHORIA
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Yes, that was the table I was looking for !

 

I'm updating the sheet atm, I'll take those in consideration.

Didn't know about the negative stats stuff either. 

 

Anyway, thank you both for this!

 

EDIT : As you probably noticed, i haven't done item maging in a while !

Edited by halkreen

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hi, how do i actually use it? do i just download it?

 

i just tried to save ur document as *.xlsx format and i opened it but seems that all formulas are not working

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Hi there

 

You have to make a copy of it in the google sheets. Should be at the topof the page. 

 

Edited by halkreen

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1 hour ago, halkreen said:

EDIT : As you probably noticed, i haven't done item maging in a while !

Not to be rude, but why the fuck you doing this if you haven't got recent experience?

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5 minutes ago, Extreal said:

Not to be rude, but why the fuck you doing this if you haven't got recent experience?

 

It's ok I understand. 

 

Well I wanted to get back into it and I wanted a tool to display the sink.

I'm not an expert magus but I understand how the basic maging works, so I made that, posted it on the dofus reddit, and since I didn't have any negative answer about that, I thought it was accurate.

 

Boy I was wrong, 60% of the rune/carac weight I found online were incorrect ...

Should be fine now, except for the negative stats thing I didn't know about!

Edited by halkreen

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hey ok, i copied it to my drive and it worked, at least the mathematical calculations

 

 

the thing that bothers me tho is that the "sink calculator" overall, even if assuming that every rune value in that calc is right, doesn't make any sense; i mean it's just a normal calculator but in a too complicated for newbs way, one could just use a normal built-in-pc calculator, provided one knows how sinks work

 

when i myself started maging, the biggest issue for me was the actual knowledge of maging basics, not some minor calculations

it's useless to have a "sink calculator" w/o sink knowledge cuz no sense to use smth u don't even know and familiar with, but at the same time it's useless to have a "sink calculator" if u know sink system: but why?

cuz the sheet you provided is not really user friendly, overall it's very time consuming to input stats in the sheet, one has to input every stat and its value separately into different columns, also choosing rune alone is time-consuming (imagine doing it everytime u got a random crit off), one should not confuse "added sink" and "weight", one should manually clean the table (and there's the risk of deleting the column formulas (ofc ctrl+z helps but still losing 2-3 secs of life evrytiem)), etc etc

 

by the time a n0b magus successfully inserts all the stats w/o any mistakes he'd become a pro magus already :D

 

if i were to be a nob beginning magus, it'd be faster for me to just learn actual sink system to even bother using any "sink calculator" (unless if that calculator is so dam technically advanced that it could help u to count sinks in real time by scanning ur maging interface and analyzing it right away)

 

another issue is that, what is sink? why is that even used? does a n0b even know about it? in my experience, sink is used to assure a much higher chance of landing a rune w/o losing other stats, than in normal cases; sink is good cuz it helps one to over- or exomage unique stats cuz in normal way it'd land much rarer; 

but if u just attempt normal maging, the sink isn't much used, cuz even if u don't have any sink, u'd still just need to dem grab dat pussy land new runes, no other way; i mean not that a range would randomly fall off, and even if it would, a new player would have no idea what that even means while a pro magus would easily take advantage of sinks

many new players do not even know what sink is, they can't imagine it, they don't know when sinks appear, and that is the information that i believe should be explained to new maguses, not just a naked empty calculator

 

tbh i really dunno how a magus, no matter a beginner or a pro one, can actually use this "sink calculator" or even any other random ones in actual practice

i am myself not a very pro magus but i had chance to talk to many excellent rushu magers, getting some of their advices as well as practicing on my own on real cases (like exoing a ring by myself for myself); and i want to say, all i'd need is the sink value table of all runes (wiki is fine for me) and the windows calculator, and it's a lot faster to simply calculate value numbers alone while using wiki runes table to check sink values

 

------------------------

imo creating a "sink calculator" is not any more useful than creating a proper and detailed tutorial of sink system, and if one has time to create such calculators he'd better instead create a tuto and teach how to read and analyze the maging interface, my 2 cents

Edited by Quadro

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Another guy was trying to create almost exactly the same thing and got the same feedback. Imo the easiest part of maging is calculating the sink, it's what you do with those numbers that's actually going to give you any decent results. Just as Quadro said but without calling everyone n0bs and sounding like a five year old, the only thing that's really going to benefit new people trying to mage is an actual guide. Rather than over-complicating a table of values that can be easily memorised and basically a less functional calculator.  This one Kedj created several years ago is probably a good reference point for that. 

 

Then again, with respect, you probably want to spend time to fully understand the logic behind maging yourself first? 

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Hey guys,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I understand what you're both trying to say, perhaps I didn't explain why I did it in the first place.

I had some free time and someone ask me to make a sink calculator that could display the sink, with the maging process results displayed on screen. I did it because I was bored, and then I shared it there.

 

I understand that most of you are practicing maging a lot and you'll probably don't need that kind of cheat sheet.

And I know that google sheets isn't very "user-friendly", but unless Dofus let us implement our "mods" (a boy can dream) I couldn't find a better solution. Maybe I can create a online tool where you just copypaste your results in the smithmaging window and then it analyses the string to compute the sink but again I don't know if that would be very time-saver.

 

I just thought some people, even if they are 2 or 3 of them out of thousands, might want to gie it a try, so I posted it.

But if you have any thoughts about how it can be improved, feel free to ask, I still got a bit of free time anyway :)

 

Many thanks!!  

 

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41 minutes ago, Quadro said:

..all i'd need is the sink value table of all runes (wiki is fine for me) and the windows calculator..

 

mdr git good

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9 hours ago, ReaperSurm said:

 

Im legit a pretty fking amazing magus

 


XD

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2 hours ago, bobeur said:

 

mdr git good

Ilg6eVM.png

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jokes on you I already am ^____^

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6 hours ago, halkreen said:

. Maybe I can create a online tool where you just copypaste your results in the smithmaging window and then it analyses the string to compute the sink but again I don't know if that would be very time-saver.

You can never do this, as when you copy/paste it doesn't display what rune was used.

E.g. "Failure" (aka crit failure) can vary from 0.1power to 100 power. 

8 hours ago, EUPHORIA said:

Negative stats, such as negative critical resistance on Treadfast amulet, cost double less sink as long as they're negative. Moment you try to turn negative to positive it goes back to it's normal sink value. So, once you try to reach 0+ (in this case critical resistance) runes sink goes back to it's normal (from 1 back to 2 sink). Not just for this item, but any item. Once you try to do -1>0 runes sink is being on it's maximum.

Also. Wrong XD

It's now whenever you are negative going to 0, it assumes its normal power. 

So -1 cri res on tf amulet +1cri res = 2 power.

Just like -3cri res on tf + pa cri res = 6 power. 

 

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w0w, what if u got -3 cri res, u land pa cri res but for whatever reason (e.g. soon running out of sink) u only get +2 cri res aka it's -1 after landing ?

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1 hour ago, Quadro said:

w0w, what if u got -3 cri res, u land pa cri res but for whatever reason (e.g. soon running out of sink) u only get +2 cri res aka it's -1 after landing ?

English please??

If cri res is at -3, and you land pa cri res, you get 0 cri res (-6 sink)

You'd need to have 4 sink remaining to get +2 only. Then.... I think that counts as the 4 sink.

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3 hours ago, ReaperSurm said:

 

Also. Wrong XD

It's now whenever you are negative going to 0, it assumes its normal power. 

So -1 cri res on tf amulet +1cri res = 2 power.

Just like -3cri res on tf + pa cri res = 6 power. 

 

In bad english, that's what he said you goofball

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10 minutes ago, Mattz said:

In bad english, that's what he said you goofball

I used google's Quadictionary to look it up word by word. 

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Just now, ReaperSurm said:

I used google's Quadictionary to look it up word by word. 

lmfao, but when he says " So, once you try to reach 0+ (in this case critical resistance) runes sink goes back to it's normal (from 1 back to 2 sink). Not just for this item, but any item. Once you try to do -1>0 runes sink is being on it's maximum. " which is in decent english, it's what you said basically x)

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5 hours ago, Mattz said:

lmfao, but when he says " So, once you try to reach 0+ (in this case critical resistance) runes sink goes back to it's normal (from 1 back to 2 sink). Not just for this item, but any item. Once you try to do -1>0 runes sink is being on it's maximum. " which is in decent english, it's what you said basically x)

Am fking with you. XD

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