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Gravestorm

Spell Variants

220 posts in this topic

Ok, lichen's been answering a lot of questions in the fr forums. You can search through the devtracker with google translate and find a ton of stuff. But to clear some misunderstandings:

 

First, there are no levels at all. No level 1 or level 6 lashing arrow, just lashing arrow.

If you have access to a level 6 spell right now, it will be just as is in 2.39 (specific buffs or nerfs aside).

"The vast majority" of spells will not change at all. Specifically, AP cost, range, cooldowns, etc. are fixed and based on current level 6 spells. For example, release will be like level 6 release and just stay like that.

The things that do change based on your level are mainly damage and healing ranges.

The spells that do change based on your level are set so that at the moment you get them, they're as strong as current level 5 spells, with the exception of very low level spells, that have a more pronounced curve at the beginning.

If you use a scroll of spells, it gives you 1000 kolossokens.

Some spell variants will be small changes like increasing damage but decreasing range of an attack, some spell variants will be drastic like changing a damage buff for a shield effect.

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Do I want to come back to Dofus, with this? O.o

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17 minutes ago, ElMatematico said:

For example, release will be like level 6 release and just stay like that.

Ew no, I like level 5 Release. I also really, really don't want to be forced into level 6 Clover.

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1. We have the feature where we can level and delevel spells at will as long as we are not in the middle of a match and that idea is great. I just don't understand the point of messing with the Spell leveling system. Did they give a clear idea of what are they trying to accomplish with this? Why is it so necessary? I just don't get why they want to reduce the incentive of working toward making your character stronger. I'm not complaining because in the long run this will help people make alts and stuff but I just don't understand the need for them to go to such lengths for this random revamp. I'm just hoping that every random nerd that picks up (and probably drops a week later) Dofus doesn't surpass veteran players, who have been trying to optimize their characters for years, without any effort. 

 

2. Also as Owyn said, it reduces customization of certain effects. For example, maybe I don't want Chafer level 6 in some fights since I don't want it having a reduced cooldown while I'm doing challenges (and let's say the Chafer chall pops up). Or level 5 Release with Dispersing Arrow or something. I feel like having degrees of power to each spell characterize most MMOs - and working your way up to make your character better I thought was always an obvious goal of the game.

 

3. Also again out of curiosity, what new rewards can they offer that are worthwhile by using Kolossokens? Are they planning to give out something useful (hopefully)? Because I don't want something cosmetic if it's potentially fuckboi-apparel and/or everyone with overcapped SP's can get right away. That being said, let's say one of my characters (or all) still isn't quite at the threshold to buy this new Kolossoken reward they introduce - do they expect people who have no interest in Kolo to suddenly start doing it just so they can get the remaining tokens to reach the reward? I hope they don't plan on trying to sway me with some dumb harnesses I'm not gonna use after investing 10s, maybe 100s of MKs in SP scrolls lol.

Edited by Casino-Royal
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29 minutes ago, Owyn said:

Ew no, I like level 5 Release. I also really, really don't want to be forced into level 6 Clover.

I know, right? It's like... Release will have 4 cell pushback just like Fate... Like.. The only viable excuse to use Release is the 1 less AP cost... Damn.

 

4 minutes ago, Casino-Royal said:

1. We have the feature where we can level and delevel spells at will as long as we are not in the middle of a match and that idea is great. I just don't understand the point of messing with the Spell leveling system. Did they give a clear idea of what are they trying to accomplish with this? Why is it so necessary? I just don't get why they want to reduce the incentive of working toward making your character stronger. I'm not complaining because in the long run this will help people make alts and stuff but I just don't understand the need for them to go to such lengths for this random revamp. I'm just hoping that every random nerd that picks up (and probably drops a week later) Dofus doesn't surpass veteran players, who have been trying to optimize their characters for years, without any effort. 

 

2. Also as Owyn said, it reduces customization of certain effects. For example, maybe I don't want Chafer level 6 in some fights since I don't want it having a reduced cooldown while I'm doing challenges (and let's say the Chafer chall pops up). Or level 5 Release with Dispersing Arrow or something. I feel like having degrees of power to each spell characterize most MMOs - and working your way up to make your character better I thought was always an obvious goal of the game.

 

3. Also again out of curiosity, what new rewards can they offer that is worthwhile by using Kolossokens? Are they planning to give out something useful (hopefully)? Because I don't want something cosmetic if it's potentially fuckboi-apparel and/or everyone with overcapped SP's can get right away. That being said, let's say one of my characters (or all) still isn't quite at the threshold to buy this new Kolossoken reward they introduce - do they expect people who have no interest in Kolo to suddenly start doing it just so they can get the remaining tokens to reach the reward? I hope they don't plan on trying to sway me with some dumb harnesses I'm not gonna use after investing 10s, maybe 100s of MKs in SP scrolls lol.

 

Inb4 ankama cancels changes and people will be mad, cause they sold SP scrolls 65kk ea ;D

 

P.S. What's the new Kollosoken reward you talked about in #3?

Edited by Leafshade

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3 minutes ago, Leafshade said:

I know, right? It's like... Release will have 4 cell pushback just like Fate... Like.. The only viable excuse to use Release is the 1 less AP cost... Damn.

 

 

Inb4 ankama cancels changes and people will be mad, cause they sold SP scrolls 65kk ea ;D

 

P.S. What's the new Kollosoken reward you talked about in #3?

They mentioned in the original post that they will be offering something you can buy with all your excess kolossokens. I mean when you break it down there's going to be hundreds of characters in game getting something like 250k kolossokens, I mean even on a tiny server like Rosal this destroys the market, can you imagine what the top populated servers are going to experience? They're gonna offer some unreasonably priced cosmetic items that no one will be able to obtain once the Sp tokens dry up and then every new recipe is probably gonna require like 15 sparkling pebbles... We're basically going to have the same issue that there is with nuggets all over again ~_~

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10 minutes ago, Leafshade said:

P.S. What's the new Kollosoken reward you talked about in #3?

 

They said it is a surprise reward (aka we don't know) they plan on releasing in December(?) according to what someone else quoted earlier in this thread. It apparently will cost a lot of tokens (even more than Karmeleon I'm assuming).

 

I'm wondering on whether it is actually useful to someone who is potentially losing a lot of kamas (from investing in Spell Points) -and- if it will be too high of a cost that even if they give us tokens for our overcapped Spell Points, we still have to farm more via Kolo (which is forceful).

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40 minutes ago, Owyn said:

Ew no, I like level 5 Release. I also really, really don't want to be forced into level 6 Clover.

lichen said something like they'll be carefully monitoring cases of spells being better left at level 5 than 6. I don't think this'll work out for release since many classes do need it for the 4 pushback while others benefit from 3. But there's that.

 

16 minutes ago, Casino-Royal said:

1. We have the feature where we can level and delevel spells at will as long as we are not in the middle of a match and that idea is great. I just don't understand the point of messing with the Spell leveling system. Did they give a clear idea of what are they trying to accomplish with this? Why is it so necessary?

lichen called levels 1 through 5 "artificial growth" to fit the need of having levels. Basically, level 5 and 6 are all that are needed almost all the time, and that's the plan. Getting level 5 equivalents that grow to level 6 equivalents, or just give level 6 spells straight from the start.

 

By the way, I'm just translating, not agreeing with the devs. I feel like this system is too dummied out, even if I can understand the decisions behind it. I do think this'll make spells easier to balance in general, because it has either gradual changes or constant stuff, as oposed to jumps in power from level 100 to 200.

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When it comes to the people wanting some spells level 4/5 instead of 6 thing,

Will there be spell variants for spells like release and chafer?

Did they mention that anywhere? Because, if there will be, maybe there will be one that has the same effect - increase cooldown on chafer for decreased AP cost, or decrease cells pushed on released for decreased AP cost.

 

And yeah, I strongly disagree with the removal of spell levelling. As a new player, I spent a lot of time looking at my spells, the effects they had at different levels, theorycrafting since I knew nothing and making plans as to how I would level them, when I would reset, when I would invest in a couple of scrolls etc. etc.

Now, it'll just be: Hey, here are spells. They get slightly better as you level. Have fun!

 

I'm slightly confused about all you level 200s saying you're gonna quit or go to 1.29 over this update.

For 200s, from what I can see, this is what it does:

A) Adds spell variants (POSITIVE)

B) Makes kolossokens less valuable (NEGATIVE)

C) Removes customization in that all spells have to be level 6 (NEGATIVE)

 

Looking at that, imho, the positive outweighs both negatives (especially since the spell variants will probably compensate us for the restriction of all spells having to be level 6).

I don't get where you're getting the idea that this update completely fucks us over and is worth quitting over.

 

I do think, as previously mentioned, that it makes the game less interesting for newer players and removes yet another layer of complexity.

Perhaps, if Ankama is worried about the system putting off new players, an option in the options menu:

<tickbox> Automatic spell levelling

And make that tickbox enabled by default.

They could then make it so that whatever level spells that player has by automatic spell levelling, when they switch, they have an equal amount of points (no longer based on their level, to avoid the need for SP scrolls)

 

Then, most players will go through with automatic levelling, and it looks less frightening to newer players, but if someone (or any existing player) wants to have more customization, we can still do so.

Edited by Sommanker

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17 minutes ago, Sommanker said:

When it comes to the people wanting some spells level 4/5 instead of 6 thing,

Will there be spell variants for spells like release and chafer?

Did they mention that anywhere? Because, if there will be, maybe there will be one that has the same effect - increase cooldown on chafer for decreased AP cost, or decrease cells pushed on released for decreased AP cost.

There will be no variants for elementary spells like Release.

 

Edit4source: The middle of the original post, under Common Spells

Quote

"Common spells (Spark, Release, etc.) will not have any variants."

 

 

Edited by Masive

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Damn,

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20 minutes ago, Sommanker said:

I do think, as previously mentioned, that it makes the game less interesting for newer players and removes yet another layer of complexity.

Perhaps, if Ankama is worried about the system putting off new players, an option in the options menu:

<tickbox> Automatic spell levelling

And make that tickbox enabled by default.

They could then make it so that whatever level spells that player has by automatic spell levelling, when they switch, they have an equal amount of points (no longer based on their level, to avoid the need for SP scrolls)

*Runescape EoC flashbacks*

no pls u dont want this

Edited by Masive
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That was different - in the RS EoC update, they took a (very) simple system and made it more complex.

Ankama are doing the reverse, taking a complex system and making it (relatively) simple.

 

Also, this isn't quite as big as that was XD

 

Edited by Sommanker

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I was more or less trying to hint at the fact that  you could go back to the traditional system with EoC, but by doing so you would leave yourself at a disadvantage. If Dofus prelevels your spells, why in gods name would you want to turn it off? Where's the advantage to turning it off?

 

Or did I just misread your entire idea?

Edited by Masive

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Well the difference is in dofus there are spells that are situationally better/more useful when they arent capped, things like release and clover as stated are good examples. old (current?) smell worked the same way as well for a while too. some spells gain a greater aoe or change in a way, such as different cd, that might negatively affect gameplay so people CHOOSE to have them at a level that suits them. This update gets rid of that.

Also on the topic of eoc/legacy its ok you can still ruin people in eoc with legacy as long as you rock scythe or t90/92 staff with barrage and just hope you stun them before they stun you because you dont have freedom to dispell the bind. Range you're out of luck but lets be honest who actually uses range anymore outside of wbs after they nerfed one tick snapshot tendril bleed ko when anyone afking with a scythe could down you on autoattacks alone.

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They need to adopt the system of if it's not broken don't fix it tbh. Instead of worrying about the spell leveling system they should instead invest man power into other stuff that we care about such as being able to spect koli fights. From what I saw on the main forums this has been received as negativity   as the weapon nerf maybe a little less.  We can hope some day they will listen to the people that keep their lights on. :^)

Edited by Just_Bunny_Stuff
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2 minutes ago, Tamamo-no-Mae said:

Also on the topic of eoc/legacy its ok you can still ruin people in eoc with legacy as long as you rock scythe or t90/92 staff with barrage and just hope you stun them before they stun you because you dont have freedom to dispell the bind. Range you're out of luck but lets be honest who actually uses range anymore outside of wbs after they nerfed one tick snapshot tendril bleed ko when anyone afking with a scythe could down you on autoattacks alone.

As someone who quit RS with EoC and then came back for OSRS this made about 30% sense to me. 

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3 minutes ago, Masive said:

As someone who quit RS with EoC and then came back for OSRS this made about 30% sense to me. 

thats eoc for you

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2 hours ago, Masive said:

I was more or less trying to hint at the fact that  you could go back to the traditional system with EoC, but by doing so you would leave yourself at a disadvantage. If Dofus prelevels your spells, why in gods name would you want to turn it off? Where's the advantage to turning it off?

 

Or did I just misread your entire idea?

1. Unlike EoC, you don't lose anything with what I proposed, since you'd have the same SP points as you would, you can just distribute them differently. I'm assuming that, under the new system, it would work like incarnations, where all spells level to 2 at the same time, then 3, then 4, then 5, then 6 over time

With what I said, you could turn this off, and use the SP points that had been automatically distributed to the spells of elements you don't use to get higher levels in more useful spells earlier.

2. If there's a spell you want lower level, you can

 

Number one is the main one for lower levels - it's not actually automatic spell levelling, more than automatic spell point distribution. By turning off, you can distribute the points as you want rather than as the system wants.

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By the way, the new items for soaking up kolossokens are characteristic scroll that raise stats from 100 to 125, costing between 1000 and 2000 tokens each. There's also a new cosmetic item, but it's a surprise.

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OK I give 0 fucks about the cosmetic stuff but half a dolmanax is nicr

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i have literally never seen a thread in this whole fucking forum that wasn't people just moaning and complaining about ankama's latest change (kolo being the only exception i can think of)

 

god damn, people, you're going to play for two or three days, get adjusted, and then fucking get over it anyway, just chill out

 

i for one am excited as fuck for spell variants anything that can make my characters shittier and more niche is a-o-fucking kay in my book

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21 minutes ago, Scour said:

i have literally never seen a thread in this whole fucking forum that wasn't people just moaning and complaining about ankama's latest change (kolo being the only exception i can think of)

 

god damn, people, you're going to play for two or three days, get adjusted, and then fucking get over it anyway, just chill out

 

i for one am excited as fuck for spell variants anything that can make my characters shittier and more niche is a-o-fucking kay in my book

 

I can't hear the interface moans anymore... Am I deaf?

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