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Gravestorm

Spell Variants

93 posts in this topic
56 minutes ago, Coopers said:

But seriously Snark you can't complain about these spell variations until we've actually seen them. So far we've seen one iop spell get a change in AOE, I wouldn't put that tantamount to changing actual gameplay or styles.

Giving a build a new attack, especially aoe, does alter gameplay. Furthemore, look at this quote taken directly from lichen's post.

Quote

Some variants are simple spell variations but they can have a substantial impact (altering the range, AP cost, effect zone, etc.) while others may have radically different effects and introduce new game mechanics to the class.

So yes, I actually can "complain" about them. :) Let me just reiterate though: I'm not against adding new mechanics or gameplay to the current classes. What I'm against is a pseudo spell deck system (which wakfu has), which aims to force the player into making a conscious decision about what their character will be capable of in any given fight. My argument is that we already have an approximation of this, in the form of spell leveling, base stats, and equipment, which effectively makes some spells better than others. You don't see agi/int cras using destructive or punitive arrow really, for example.

I'm all for adding some variation or specialization to classes by modifying spells, but not in the way that AG has proposed. That's why I used Tortoruga as an example of spell variants I think would add specialization, but not different enough from each other that they're different spells or mechanics. o/

 

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I agree with Snarkles.

Particularly on the removal of spell levelling.

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This is an enormous change, I hope it won't break the game.

They should change name to Dofus 3.0 when they introduce all variants, really.

 

I'm not gonna judge it until I see it. I never PvP so I don't care about kolossokens

(btw. where are Kolossium achievs? the tab was visible on website a year ago...)

 

I think it will just make Pressure +2 range, lower dmg and erosion rather than 16ap/8mp cha ap rape iop.

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I think removing spell leveling is a good way to make the game more accessible for new players. I mean. Let's be fair. It's difficult enough to stwp into Dofus completely unaware of what the game is. For younger people just looking for a fun game it's a lot to take in. I am very much looking forward to alternative spells too. Just something new to do. Something original to play around with. Honestly elemental diversity is mostly gone with all the omni sets out there. So the only thing setting people apart is the amount of kamas to spend and their brains. If there are different ways of ppaying a class I applaud that. And if there are more elemental changes in spells (Like the Iop one.) It might mean the return of more pure builds which brings a lot more diversity to the table.

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47 minutes ago, Camogie said:

I think removing spell leveling is a good way to make the game more accessible for new players. I mean. Let's be fair. It's difficult enough to stwp into Dofus completely unaware of what the game is. For younger people just looking for a fun game it's a lot to take in. 

 

For me, this is Dofus' problem - they're focusing on what would benefit new players and ignoring their long-term customers. Dofus is a subscription game so I would have thought it'd be better to focus on one player subscribing for a year than attempt to gain five new customers who will, in all likelihood, subscribe for a month then stop.

 

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9 minutes ago, chaenzkid said:

..new customers who will, in all likelihood, subscribe for a month then stop.

 

That's exactly what they're trying to avoid with changes like these ;-)

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Dofus' problem is our problem. (Even though I don't see it a problem.) Sure. If you play Rushu. You are probably fine. But as a Shikan with no desire to move over to Rushu.. I would love for them to make stuff like this easier so we could get new blood in. Hell. I would start to invite people I know to play. Because at this point.. Where would I start with explaining what to do and how to do it without them feeling like I am doing all their work for them because it is too much to take in at once? Take a look at Rogues. I enjoyed playing chance a lot. It's a build I would suggest if people are interested in that based on my own preference. Should I tell those people 'yeah. Right now you level extraction because there is nothing until boomerang daggers to do direct damage with. (You want them to be fine on their own. Nobody wants to learn how to leech.) But later we do some dungeons and we go to otomai to unlevel those spells so you could level what you are interested in.' (I count the last spell update as a simplifier already so yes I know that exists and choose to ignore that right now.) I would personally back out/lose interest at that point.. And then I am baming one of the simpler classes to play. I mean. Just go out to a friend that doesn't know the game and explain to them how a Xelor works. I dare you. 

 

I think the game is too big and too complicated to just drop someone in without guidance like a lot of us did. And Ankama realizes that.(offering potential rewards for staying in incarnam and helping steam players.) So I think this is a step in the right direction for making it more accessible. While at the same time making it more interesting -after- 200 (When you should be understanding what the game is about for a while.) to make it more interesting for us long-term players. Which to me makes it look like they are starting to think about both groups.

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maybe cuz u don't suggest rogue or xel to a new player <:

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1 hour ago, Camogie said:

Dofus' problem is our problem. (Even though I don't see it a problem.) Sure. If you play Rushu. You are probably fine. But as a Shikan with no desire to move over to Rushu.. I would love for them to make stuff like this easier so we could get new blood in. Hell. I would start to invite people I know to play. Because at this point.. Where would I start with explaining what to do and how to do it without them feeling like I am doing all their work for them because it is too much to take in at once? Take a look at Rogues. I enjoyed playing chance a lot. It's a build I would suggest if people are interested in that based on my own preference. Should I tell those people 'yeah. Right now you level extraction because there is nothing until boomerang daggers to do direct damage with. (You want them to be fine on their own. Nobody wants to learn how to leech.) But later we do some dungeons and we go to otomai to unlevel those spells so you could level what you are interested in.' (I count the last spell update as a simplifier already so yes I know that exists and choose to ignore that right now.) I would personally back out/lose interest at that point.. And then I am baming one of the simpler classes to play. I mean. Just go out to a friend that doesn't know the game and explain to them how a Xelor works. I dare you. 

 

I think the game is too big and too complicated to just drop someone in without guidance like a lot of us did. And Ankama realizes that.(offering potential rewards for staying in incarnam and helping steam players.) So I think this is a step in the right direction for making it more accessible. While at the same time making it more interesting -after- 200 (When you should be understanding what the game is about for a while.) to make it more interesting for us long-term players. Which to me makes it look like they are starting to think about both groups.

 

 

Uhh, Yes and no, i mean if you can gain 1-200 in a few days and pretty much buy your way to the top then you'll lose interest in the game after a few weeks/months, which is the issue i'm worried about now, because this is so easily done in this day and age of Dofus.

 

Back in the 1.29 days, the game was a lot simpler, granted, but it was also complex in the sense that we did have to find out how to reset spells & characteristics and how to kill certain dungeons with a much weaker team than what is available nowadays and with a much smaller community, heck it could take a day just to reset, the whole point of an MMORPG isn't to learn every class and every mechanism/tactic over night, so it keeps you coming back for more and you have a sense of achievement after learning that tricky spell combination for yourself or finally figuring out a better tactic to kill that seemingly impossible dungeon. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with dropping fresh meat right into the game without any guidance, that's the whole point, is that you're a new player and you explore, read what NPC's have to say and learn as you go. So to say ''make things easier so we could get new blood in'' in my view is ridiculous, sure you may attract a few short term players, but to offer such an easy MMO where a player can obtain 1-200 in a few days, be leeched through the end game content and have everything they need (equipment/build & spell wise), 1 click away, simply isn't the answer to keep loyal players to log back in every day. What will get new blood in is advertisement, you don't need to make these ridiculous packages which obtain many of the games rares for $$$, to me Ankama released Dofus onto steam for a new source of income, not to attract long term players, It doesn't take a genius to realise that if Ankama had advertised a few years ago, they wouldn't of been left with 4 empty EU servers and would most likely of kept some loyal players in the process.

 

Yes offering spell deleveling with such ease to a player was great and spell variations sound awesome, but killing off the economy for certain aspects of the game every time an update is announced (spell point scrolls this update), with the promise of rares/collectables every time Ankama's sales team doesn't meet it's target for the month really won't keep players happy, especially the long term loyal players who've worked countless hours to be able to afford them, only for ankama to release them a few weeks later for £££ (shushivin, boarhog, razorbuck, ratcham, darkshield, gunsen shield etc).

 

 At the end of the day, Ankama really are their own worst enemy and shoot themselves in the foot after bringing out some great ideas and updates in the hope to secure new players to the game, but the only issue is the way they're going about it, which currently is resulting in a new short-term player base, and leaving loyal veteran players frustrated.

 

#IfOnlyICouldWriteEssaysLikeThisAtSchoolIProbablyWouldn'tOfFailedMyExam

Edited by Tezar
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I welcome all the new players coming to 1.29 after this update haha

 

I do actually like this idea honestly, it brings much needed variation in PvM, maybe not PvP because now things may be unbalanced and less predictable, but that could be a good thing. PvP hasn't exactly been balanced for awhile so maybe this could help balance things in the correct direction.

 

just my two cents

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cant w8 to buy pebbles and harness with my 13 char worth of sp pt ^_____^

 

 

Vulbis dofus coming in ogrine market soon 

 

@Coopers We must stop the Communist scum

 

P.S. lol thx god for Pokemon Sun and Moon coming out, almost decided to start playing Trophus again yikes

Edited by Casino-Royal
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38 minutes ago, Casino-Royal said:

cant w8 to buy pebbles and harness with my 13 char worth of sp pt ^_____^

 

 

Vulbis dofus coming in ogrine market soon 

 

@Coopers We must stop the Communist scum

 

P.S. lol thx god for Pokemon Sun and Moon coming out, almost decided to start playing Trophus again yikes

 

buy me a 3DS and a copy of the game so I can catch alolan vulpex men

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Honestly, spell variants are cool and all, but why remove character customization (via spell levels) for all the lower level characters? I know the game is top heavy right now and they want to cater to that audience, but they don't need to stomp all over the leveling system for it. 

 

I personally think the changes will hurt newer players. I can just imagine how boring leveling will actually be for these new players... Oh what do you get for leveling? 5 char points and maybe a new spell (don't even get those 101-200). Seriously? I remember when I was an f2p nub wanting to get my spells leveled, fantasizing about those cool level 6 versions.

 

Now leveling means less. Next patch we remove leveling because it makes the game harder for new players! :^)

 

Edited by Masive
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4 hours ago, CAFATT said:

I welcome all the new players coming to 1.29 after this update haha

I cant help but think their decision to bring back 1.29 was because they knew this update would be a sham and they still want people that ragequit the live game to pay $$$$ to play 1.29

 

e6c90c6532470bef0733f6c2b16f0a35.png

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55 minutes ago, Masive said:

Now leveling means less. 

 

That's not true though*, it's just the spell points that have been removed. It always has been a gap to getting full potential out of your class, especially for solo accounters, to get enough cash to gear up AND get enough spell points to max out your spells. Even though it got cheaper over the years (120kk for spell scrolls vs 500-700) it still is an investment that not many are willing to make because usually it affects the quality of your gear.

 

*

On 11/15/2016 at 4:38 PM, Gravestorm said:
The idea of levels (or grades) for spells has been removed. Spells now evolve automatically based on the level of the character.
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now if they start all level 200's off with level 1 spells i think people will be really upset. They should handle it by leveling the spells you had spell points invested in.

 

Because I'm going to be pissed when i log 6 months from now (because no one quits forever) to find i have to level all my damn spells in order to play again.

 

19 minutes ago, Tamamo-no-Mae said:

I cant help but think their decision to bring back 1.29 was because they knew this update would be a sham and they still want people that ragequit the live game to pay $$$$ to play 1.29

 

Well, they got me.....

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There won't be levels at all, and most spell will be just the level 6 version from the start. The ones that will change are mostly damage or healing spells, acording to lichen. That change is automatic and based on your level. This also guarantees a massive spell balancing, because there's no way level 90 cras get AoE of 3 exploding arrow.

 

 

 

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at least nobody is complaining about incarnations having the spells lvl based on incarnation's lvl for several years already :')

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17 minutes ago, Quadro said:

at least nobody is complaining about incarnations having the spells lvl based on incarnation's lvl for several years already :')

incarnations take 30 mins to level and theres only ~5 spells anyway for most of them

Edited by Tamamo-no-Mae
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49 minutes ago, ElMatematico said:

 

There won't be levels at all, and most spell will be just the level 6 version from the start. The ones that will change are mostly damage or healing spells, acording to lichen. That change is automatic and based on your level.

Does that sounds Massively boring to anyone else? Not gaining range on utility spells like tortoruga, transposition, blow, shields and buffs, etc. God I really hope they don't go through with this update.. and if they do this all at once(sac+prestige level+spell system change) I honestly might just quit.. or take another year break.

 

That said, pokemon sun/moon is almost out, so like when X/Y came out, I'm probably going to not be playing anyway. :P

(and don't get me started on how much i hate half the changed in S/M T_T)

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34 minutes ago, Tamamo-no-Mae said:

incarnations take 30 mins to level and theres only ~5 spells anyway for most of them

np the same will be for actual chars in next few updates (':

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17 minutes ago, Snarkles said:

Does that sounds Massively boring to anyone else? Not gaining range on utility spells like tortoruga, transposition, blow, shields and buffs, etc.

 

I'm not sure if I missed something, but I don't think anyone ever said that's gonna happen. As I quoted before, spells will be evolved automatically based on character level. Pretty sure that also includes the whole spectrum and not just damage.

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1 minute ago, bobeur said:

 

I'm not sure if I missed something, but I don't think anyone ever said that's gonna happen. As I quoted before, spells will be evolved automatically based on character level. Pretty sure that also includes the whole spectrum and not just damage.

Well scroll up juuuust a little, I was quoting ElMat, who was referring to something lichen said. That's all. :P

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2 hours ago, ElMatematico said:

 

There won't be levels at all, and most spell will be just the level 6 version from the start. The ones that will change are mostly damage or healing spells, acording to lichen. That change is automatic and based on your level. This also guarantees a massive spell balancing, because there's no way level 90 cras get AoE of 3 exploding arrow.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, I was under the impression that by the time you hit level 200 it would be the same as having all spells level 6 and all spell levels will just have a level requirement before they go from level 1, 2, 3 etc...(Ex. Level 1 magic arrow at level 1, level 2 magic arrow at level 12, level 3 magic arrow at level 36 and so on). Also on a side note I don't understand why this really balances anything, major difference for your spells damage is gear so its your characters level that automatically balances your spells. Regardless there are no cras at level 90 running around with 3AoE explosive...

 

Honestly this change wouldn't even be bad if it didn't suddenly crash the markets for sparklings and sp scrolls. While I enjoyed grinding to get all my spells to level 6, It sure will save me time for my nubby alts ^^.

 

The real issue I have with this update is that while Ankama says its to simplify the spell system and help new players, I can't see how it does either of those things. First of all there was nothing complicated about leveling spells manually, I mean you had to make minor choices as to what spells to level, but it also gave you a goal to go collect kamas or kolo to get more sp scrolls. 

 

Second, as far as it goes for new players, the gear from like level 1 to roughly 150  is so much worse compared to level 200 gear that the only viable builds where pure builds or maybe hybrids. So for all the new players who are quitting after a few weeks, they will never even really understand the benefit this change offers them, instead it just screws over all the level 200 players who have been playing for years

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Mmm, I don't feel like it's going to screw lvl 200, at least I'm quite excited about it,sounds fun.

Plus can't wait for Sac revamp, might revive mine after that :>

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