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Vahe

Add "Heavy" status to Ecaflip's Luck

Take a look at the official Dofus forum discussion for more info.

Hi guys,

Have done quite a bit of Kolo recently, and a trend I'm seeing is Eca/Panda combo. Ultimately, Eca casts Ecaflip's Luck and then, on the Eca's second (ie double damage) turn, Panda stabilises and picks Eca up.

I feel like this completely defeats the point of how Ecaflip's Luck should work. As such, I suggest that Ecas become "Heavy" on the second turn of Ecaflip's Luck.

Alternative solution: The double damage is taken by the Panda instead.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

Adam

Edited by Vahe
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Does the panda not take double damage?

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Does the panda not take double damage?

Not as far as I'm aware (though this could be an alternative solution if not already in place).

Edited by Vahe

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Map manipulation is the answer, separate the panda from the ecaflip(keep in mind Pandiniuras CD when making the play). Luck+Truce though is almost impossible to avoid.

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Yep, I'm sure we all appreciate that map manipulation is the answer (as with most things). That doesn't detract from the fact that spells that give a huge advantage (such as invincibility for one turn) should really have an unavoidable downside. That's why Osa's Leash includes res reduction, Truce applies Pacifist state and WoR makes the target unhealable - none of which can be avoided.

EDIT: Also wanted to quickly add that, while Luck + Truce is unavoidable, I don't see this is too big a problem as the benefit (ie invincibility) is enjoyed by both allies and enemies. Plus I can't think of a sensible solution.

Edited by Vahe

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imo it's panda's picking up which is op, it's almost like sacrifice every turn af

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Except you have to be in cc range.

No complaining about panda's pick up and throw being op in pvp please, don't want a lower limit in uses for pvm...........

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imo it's panda's picking up which is op, it's almost like sacrifice every turn af

Ye. It's completely like sacri except facts:

You must be in cc.

You must use it every turn.

You can use stabi every 2nd turn only.

You can't use it when target is heavy/rooted.

But back on topic:

I don't think this is too much op (maybe it's couse of fact i don't kolo abd pvp at all). As i said panda must sacrifice some of his aps/mps/ boozer res. That's part of gameplay. As op as elio/roug or panda/roug can be and worth to mention that eca/panda-luck combo is being used not so often. You can always change your own strategy; for example focusing panda, raping panda (am/mp)+ pushing away, brib, give eca some state that will ensure you panda won't pick him up etc etc etc.

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To clarify: It's not so much that the situation itself can't be avoided, but more that such a beneficial effect has an avoidable downside at all. In my opinion, any spell that gives such an advantage should have an inherent negative that can't be completely negated with very little cost (a little less resist and 2 AP?).

Compare it to Truce. The downside (ie invincibility of the enemy) could be 'avoided' via unbewitchment. Although this could be prevented with a little map manipulation (ie keeping the unbewitchers at bay), the ability to unbewitch the damage reduction was ultimately removed.

I'm just calling for a similar approach to Ecaflip's Luck.

Edited by Vahe

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Many other beneficial spells have avoidable downsides, just look at the ecaflip's palette of spells: wheel of fortune gives - resistance, this can be debuffed by an ally, debuffed by feline spirit, or used to heal the ecaflip more when he uses ecaflip's luck. Similar scenarios where you have to consider the pros and cons can be found with clover, feline spirit, roulette, smell. This is literally the only "gambling" aspect left of the class, using their double-edged spells and trying to take advantage of them with their teammates.

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You're comparing a turn of invincibility to general buffs, and I don't agree that those are comparable. It's like comparing an Osa's buffs to their Leash - they're in completely different leagues.

I understand the sentiment about Ecas being a "gambling" class - but gambling is inherently balanced. You have an equal chance of winning and losing (most of the time, at least). I don't think the fact that a turn of double damage can be negated for 2 AP is justified by saying "oh, well they're a gambling class so that's to be expected".

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Bump! Got a decent discussion going on the official forums. Generally split as to whether or not this is a problem - would be cool to hear more thoughts. :)

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Just another one of things you just deal with when it comes to pvp and find a way to work around it. There has always been something op/bs in group pvp fights.

Just like the old truce unbewitch, or luck/unbewitch (if I recall you could remove the negative??) 2 turn 2ap immune(we are going back here). Sacrifice or Bag/tree/immune (my god I miss sacrifice/sr against Soft oak just to see those digits roll off and see his HP drop/pretty much auto kill with two Fecas and a sac and some alts who can take one hit from SO prior to said combo). Even WOR on the enemy was a funny one to put them into unhealable state. Spells prior to global recast.

Answer to most of those was generally an unbewitch (not incl the last to mentioned) answer to this is just do something to mess the Panda from being able to reach the Eca or as your topic goes along the lines of stabil on the Eca with a Panda 1ap cost. It will always come down to team comp and if you have something to counter what the other team have perc/kolo part of these fights is generally not knowing who/what team comp you will come up against though it can be possible to know in both types of pvp prior.

I personally don't see this as a problem.

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Thanks for your input, Auron - and thanks for the blast from the past! I'd almost forgotten a lot of those. Though, how those spells turned out reinforces, for me at least, that Ecaflip's Luck should really head the same way.

The fact that the Panda/Eca team pairing is employed to use the invincibility mechanic demonstrates that there is a problem (in the same way that the Elio/Eca pairing used to be employed because of how AoN worked through portals). At the end of the day, I suppose it depends on your definition of the word "problem".

Edited by Vahe

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