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Coopers

The Idol System

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The Idol System The idol system is a new concept that allows players to increase their XP and loot rewards by increasing combat difficulty. It will be introduced in the 2.29 update.

13f80cdb81946b851410416a0e0254ce.jpg
Choosing game difficulty

Over the years, the question of how the difficulty level in DOFUS should be managed has become an increasingly thorny issue, as we need to continue producing new content at all player levels, make sure the game is accessible to new players and also ensure the game has fresh challenges for veteran players who are continually improving both their characters and their expertise in the game.

The gap between beginners and veterans has become larger and larger because, as the game becomes more complex, the game mechanics become more involved and greater in number. It is therefore more and more difficult for us to fulfil the expectations of every one of our players with each single addition of content.

This is why we have been working on a system that allows players to set game difficulty, in order to be able to use the same content to target multiple different player profiles. Idols will also be used as a starting point from which to address issues related to Wisdom and Prospecting.

Observations about Wisdom and Prospecting

We are generally not satisfied with the way Wisdom and Prospecting works in terms of the game’s levelling and resource acquisition mechanics for the following reasons:

  • The Wisdom and Prospecting system forces players to sacrifice character effectiveness for better XP and loot gains.
  • This sacrifice isn’t usually much fun. It makes fights longer and less interesting, because Wis/Prospecting characters struggle to play a decisive role in combat.
  • These sacrifices makes creating teams more difficult, as lower-level recruited characters have not always been optimised for effectiveness in combat, but instead tend to be optimised for maximum individual gain.
  • The current XP formula doesn’t encourage players to take risks and opt for fights posing a real challenge (often it’s more profitable for players to swiftly and easily defeat low-level mobs rather than fighting monsters their own level or higher).
  • The effects of this system encourage players to create ‘mule’ characters who are able to level up in-game much too quickly and in a not particularly enjoyable way (these characters don’t really get actively involved in fights).

We have no intention of majorly altering the way Wisdom and Prospecting works with the introduction of these idols, but we do want to offer an alternative to maximising these two characteristics.

Our goals

Here are the goals we aim to achieve with this new system:

  • Provide an alternative to Wisdom and Prospecting as a way to level up.
  • Offer an enjoyable way of altering the difficulty level between fights (idols will be able to modify gameplay as well as rewards).
  • Increase incentive for risk-taking via better rewards.
  • Allow players to increase their rewards without compromising character effectiveness.
  • Idols shouldn’t make fights last too long or directly reduce character effectiveness; usually, the opponents will become more dangerous.
  • The system should improve the tactical aspect of combat, as the restrictions introduced should encourage players to think and should rejuvenate their gameplay experience.
  • The system should allow the introduction of enough additional difficulty to make low-level content difficult enough for higher level characters to find it challenging.
  • Increase incentive for players to fight monsters that are their own level (or higher).
How it will work

Each character has 6 idol slots, and it will be possible to use between 0 to 6 idols at the same time. Players can choose which idols to activate for a fight via a dedicated idol collection interface. Idols can be changed between fights and can also be modified outside of combat and during the preparation phase.

Idols will appear in one’s inventory and can be swapped between characters. The idol collection interface will help players manage idols. This interface will allow you to see every idol that exists in the game and therefore will help you identify those your character doesn’t have yet.

It won’t be possible to equip the same idol several times. Idols may interact with each other differently via modifiers. These modifiers allow the balancing of some idol combinations that may be too overpowered or detrimental when combined.

Each idol modifies combat by introducing a rule or additional effect that makes combat tougher in exchange for added XP or loot. Unlike Challenges, you can’t decide in mid-combat whether or not you want to accept these additional restrictions; you can indeed choose which idols to use, but you have to stick with them for the duration of the fight.

Here are some examples of idols (their names and characteristics are arbitrary and not definitive):

  • Reflector: Opponents reflect back 20% of received damage. +40% XP and loot bonus.
  • Churlish: Contact damage from opponents increases to 100%. +60% XP and loot bonus.
  • Catalyst: When one enemy dies, the other enemies gain 2 MP for 1 turn. +30% XP and loot bonus.
  • Quell: Opponents’ damage increases by 200% and then decreases by 20% per game turn.(note from me, french devblog says 50% loot/drops increase)
  • Proximity: On attacking an enemy, allies in a 3-cell radius surrounding the attacker receive 100% of the damage. +60% XP and loot bonus.

Some idols whose effects only work with allies or with multiple enemies have a criterion known as ‘Team’. The effects and bonuses for these idols only count when a battle includes at least 4 monsters and 4 player characters (including Sidekicks).

selection-idoles.pngSome idol images.

A specific XP and loot formula

One of our objectives for using idols was to provide an alternative to Wisdom and Prospecting.

Therefore the bonuses applied by idols will not be impacted by Wisdom and Prospecting (they are additive and not multiplicative to those applied by Wisdom and Prospecting).

You can therefore sacrifice all of your Wisdom and Prospecting in order to maximise the effectiveness of your character and focus on using idols for boosting your XP and loot gains.

The formula used to calculate XP and loot bonuses takes into account the gap between the highest character level and the average level of the monsters for each fight. The way this works significantly rewards fighting against monsters whose level is similar to the player’s level and reduces XP earned from monsters of too low a level. Thanks to this system, idols can offer substantial bonuses while at the same time minimising the risk that they will be used to exploit content of too low a level. Monsters that have specific levels (such as Peki Peki, Tynrils, etc.) will be handled specifically in the calculation of the level gaps between player characters and monsters.

Universal bonuses (such as stars, Almanax, secondary characters, Challenges, server bonuses, etc.) will remain multiplicative and will apply to XP and loot gains added by idols.

The potential XP rewards from idols will be visible in the mobs overview via the XP reward preview.

The way this formula works allows players to continue using Wisdom and Prospecting if they wish without incurring any penalties, while offering a true alternative to these through the use of idols.

We aren’t happy with how Wisdom and Prospecting works currently, but we feel that the community isn’t ready for an overhaul of these systems, which has been in place since DOFUS was launched.

We are therefore favouring a more gradual approach, which consists of proposing a very sound system that is compatible with our expectations, of which idols are only the first phase. We intend to support the idol system over the course of future updates to encourage its adoption among players, so that we can potentially modify the way Wisdom and Prospecting works in the long term without disturbing the gameplay habits of those players who make use of Wisdom and Prospecting too much.

Multiplayer

Idol effects will apply to all combat and for all the characters in a fight.

If these characters are not in a group, it will be the character who starts the fight who sets the idols for the fight (they will be visible in combat).

If all the characters in the fight are from the same group, the idols set for the group will be taken into account. The group leader will be able to change the idols used for the group outside of combat (via a dedicated interface), and will have access to all of the idols from all of the inventories of the player characters in that group. This means you can combine idols from several characters when you play in a group (though you’re still limited to a maximum of 6 active idols) and you can use your allies’ idols even if your character doesn’t have those particular idols.

You will able to check the idols set for the group before starting a fight, as the group idol management interface will be accessible from the group interface.

By default, the idols set for the group are those belonging to the group leader. If a character from the group starts a fight without the group leader, that character’s idols will be set for the fight. A character can’t lend their idols to others if that character isn’t in the fight.

This multiplayer idol management might seem a bit complex, as it involves good organisation and cooperation between players, but it is essential in order to allow players to share their idols securely.

Acquisition

It will be possible for players to craft their first idol in-game in Incarnam, during the professions tutorial.

Artificers (formerly Shield Smiths) will be able to craft idols, and players will not be able to get them any other way.

The simplest idols will have a low equipment level and will require resources that are easy to obtain. More complex idols will have a much higher equipment level and recipes that are difficult to craft. In order to craft them, nearly all idols will require Dungeon keeper essence.

Idols aren’t consumables, so players won’t need to craft the same idol several times for one character.

Scores and Achievements

Each idol will confer points that will be added up at the end of a fight in the form of a score (the more difficulty applied by an idol, the greater the number of points).

Achievements will be created for each Boss and family of monsters, and will require getting specific scores for a fight.

These new Achievements won’t award Boss resources, but will give players XP and Achievement Points.

These Achievements won’t require specific idols to be used; the players themselves will be free to decide and choose which idol combinations are best suited for completing the set objectives. This means they can be completed in different ways.

The future

We greatly hope that this new system will potentially supply a practical alternative to the Wisdom and Prospecting system while allowing for a gradual and voluntary transition. If the system works as intended, we will add other idols in-game to vary the challenges and opportunities on offer to the players. We intend to construct other game systems around idols (by using the end-of-combat score system for example) but before we can begin any of these projects, we first need to be sure that the idol system works well in the months to come.

By allowing players to adjust combat difficulty, idols may also potentially enable us to more easily create content that is accessible to the majority of players while at the same time offering a much greater challenge to those who want one.

Q & AWill there be any idols that make fights easier?

We have no plans for making idols that will make fighting easier. We feel that the overall difficulty of the game is fine as it is currently. We want to allow players to adjust the difficulty level of the existing content so that they can rediscover and find new challenges in content they already know.

For players who feel that the current content in DOFUS is too difficult, the idol system will allow them to tackle simpler content that they already know while gradually increasing its difficulty in order to increase the rewards gained from it.

Idols aren’t solely intended to increase the game’s maximum difficulty level; they can also be used at every level of content. For example, if you think that the later dimensional dungeons are too difficult for your character, idols will help you practice on the first dimensional dungeons or other lower level dungeons by increasing their difficulty and the rewards you earn from them.

In addition, the Achievements in DOFUS have been carefully designed to offer a specific and much-valued challenge for players who complete them. We don’t want to devalue Achievements by allowing players to reduce the current difficulty of these challenges. And we don’t want the rewards from certain content or Achievements to become too easy to generate via reduction of their difficulty level.

Will the loot bonuses from idols work with resources that were ‘easily’ gathered from Achievements?

We felt that we needed to offer a viable alternative to Prospecting, and the loot bonuses conferred by idols will play this necessary role.

A significant number of resources have lost their value during the course of content addition. This is a normal process as new content gets added and the most sought-after resources and items change over time.

However, we don’t see that as inevitable, and through the course of several updates we’ve been actively working on restoring value to numerous resources dropped by monsters in order to revalue the importance of loot.

It’s a very long process that involves the creation of new recipes and the implementation of effective destruction mechanics (such as the rune generation system, for example), in order to ensure ongoing demand for resources.

We want to continue gradually restoring the value of resources dropped by monsters, so the loot bonuses offered by the idol system still appear relevant to us.

Isn’t it possible you will further simplify XP gains?

We feel the speed of progression is much too great in certain extreme cases, when a character’s effectiveness is sacrificed for their Wisdom bonus and when characters are levelling up in a situation where they aren’t really involved actively in fights (the infamous ‘Wisdom mules’wink.gif. Among other reasons, this is exactly why we want to eventually reduce the impact of Wisdom and Prospecting.

However, we don’t feel that progression in DOFUS is currently too simple for those players who level up in the traditional manner, that is to say, through discovering the game’s mechanics, without using secondary character bonuses, and without benefitting from item gifting or significant outside help.

Idols will help increase XP and loot gains, but this will be majorly compensated for by the increase in the difficulty level of the fights.

We don’t want to significantly increase the speed of character progression; instead we want players to level up in a different way. We want to reward risk-takers and increase the variety of challenges offered.

Why don’t idols apply individual effects and bonuses in group combat?

Idols apply effects and bonuses to the entire group because we want to avoid the issues experienced with the individualistic system that is Wisdom and Prospecting, which results in some players doing all the fighting while others sacrifice their character’s effectiveness for the sake of bigger bonuses.

How will very low-level content be balanced if it is played using a large collection of idols?

If the level gap is too great between monsters and players, then a penalty will be applied to the idols’ XP and loot gain characteristics. We want low-level content to bring new challenges (thanks to the idol system) to players who already know this content well, but we don’t want this content to compete too strongly with content adapted to the current level of their characters.

When are you going to reduce the impact of Wisdom and Prospecting?

We have no date for this yet. We’re waiting to be able to judge the impact of idols on the game and to what extent these are used by players. If we manage to make idols into a major game mechanic for regulating XP and loot gains, we will then be able to alter more swiftly the way Wisdom and Prospecting works. For us it’s a potential, long-term project. We already have some ideas about how we will reduce the impact of Wisdom and Prospecting, but we want to go about this carefully so we don’t upset the community’s behaviour in terms of these two characteristics. http://www.dofus.com/en/mmorpg/news/devblog/tickets/435206-idol-system

Edited by Coopers
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This sounds very interesting for easy fights!, Wonder if they won't make certain fights too hard, but looking forward to do royal gobball again with 6 idols :P

Edited by colombo-ll

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that 1st one is perfect for sneh (lololol Patel joke I'm sorry sneh :c)

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did someone say more achievement points? :)

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Maybe now i can hit 200 :D

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what about -xp and -drop for -monster damage?

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what about -xp and -drop for -monster damage?

If only :rolleyes:

Edited by Sugared

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what about -xp and -drop for -monster damage?

Give it time. Ankama said in this devlog they don't want to decrease difficulty. They also said class changes won't be a thing.

B> Count idol with 0 xp/drop.

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If the developers wanted to reward players that take risks, they could have started by lowering the penalty of fighting monster groups higher than your level. The penalty is so big that fighting a single monster of your level gives almost the same xp as a group of 8 monsters, each of your level.

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If the developers wanted to reward players that take risks, they could have started by lowering the penalty of fighting monster groups higher than your level. The penalty is so big that fighting a single monster of your level gives almost the same xp as a group of 8 monsters, each of your level.

You should be rewarded for killing things higher than your level, not punished for it ^

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Lots of change for June. Should be a fun time

Can anybody explain churlish? Can see myself having catalyst on and probably quell in most pvm fights for exp

Edited by Dreaming On

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I need a Juse idol because I must praise Juse the great one

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Any idea how much idols will be released at first?

And will there be also some stages for any idol (i know they say there are idols for any level, but not if they will be the same) like for trophies?

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I think Ankama confuses the concepts of challenging endeavor and odious struggle.

I am really disinclined to participate in the "idols" implementation.

You have to work to acquire one, work to equip one and work to win for a limited reward that doesnt work with prospecting?

Please understand, the drop screen is my favorite part of the game. Back in the dark ages and before wiki existed; we explorers of this new game chose classes at random loosely based on bad descriptions of classes where you couldnt see level-locked spells and half the spells didnt work. On a rumor that Enotrofs receive a spell that "improves drops" I chose the class and slogged through lv42 for my first water based spell, statless to be scrolled eventually, no leeching, no multilogging, no quests, no stars, no challenges, no achievements and get off my damn lawn.

IT WAS WORTH IT.

I am not convinced this will be, am I missing the concept?

Thoughts?

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I am not convinced this will be, am I missing the concept?

Thoughts?

Back when we started playing (nice to see you btw) it was a completely different game. The whole concept of the game changed few updates ago imo. The simple update of the new trophies made dofus change direction completely. This is the reason I keep my self away (notorious for dofus farming).

What would you rather have?

320 vitality or 200 vitality?

1 mp or 1 mp and 50% power?

1 ap or 1 ap and 150 vitality?

I mean, even the dofuses, which the original story was all about, has changed.

For someone like me (and 100% certain many others) , it sucks big-time. Not only did they change the story by making trophies more powerful then the dreggon eggs, but also they seem to focus more on the single, multi-logging player.

I understand Ankama. They are all about money. Which company isn't now a days, but I'm not digging the last changes at all.

This one included.

I don't mean to come of as a complaining asshole or anything. I can make whatever set I want and manage whatever dungeon possible, but it's sad to see the direction ankama is taking.

Echt, I miss you man.

Please don't flame me people.

Edited by youbutsu
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I think Ankama confuses the concepts of challenging endeavor and odious struggle.

I am really disinclined to participate in the "idols" implementation.

You have to work to acquire one, work to equip one and work to win for a limited reward that doesnt work with prospecting?

Please understand, the drop screen is my favorite part of the game. Back in the dark ages and before wiki existed; we explorers of this new game chose classes at random loosely based on bad descriptions of classes where you couldnt see level-locked spells and half the spells didnt work. On a rumor that Enotrofs receive a spell that "improves drops" I chose the class and slogged through lv42 for my first water based spell, statless to be scrolled eventually, no leeching, no multilogging, no quests, no stars, no challenges, no achievements and get off my damn lawn.

IT WAS WORTH IT.

I am not convinced this will be, am I missing the concept?

Thoughts?

Just because you did it the "hard" way doesn't mean others did, would, or should. No leeching nor multilogging is good in my book, but obviously many others disagree. But I personally don't see anything wrong with quests, stars, challenges and achievements. If anything, leeching has been so popular that Ankama developed those systems as well as idols to provide alternatives.

Also, they're not removing prospecting (yet), and the idol bonus and prospecting bonus will just add up, but not multiply. If and when they make significant changes to prospecting, I'm sure they'll change Enutrof's Chest spell to make it still worth using.

What would you rather have?

320 vitality or 200 vitality?

1 mp or 1 mp and 50% power?

1 ap or 1 ap and 150 vitality?

I mean, even the dofuses, which the original story was all about, has changed.

For someone like me (and 100% certain many others) , it sucks big-time. Not only did they change the story by making trophies more powerful then the dreggon eggs, but also they seem to focus more on the single, multi-logging player.

The new trophies are only better than dofuses if you can wear them. While it's possible to make competitive sets wwith only 1 single set bonus, they are usually only competitive and not superior to previous best sets, and you often still need an ochre.

Multi-accounting keeps becoming more popular because there are few things limiting its advantages. However I would say the opposite of what you did, that Ankama has been finally taking care of its single-account customers. The new ways to obtain dofuses are much more feasible for single-account players, and kolossium, dopples and treasure hunts have low barrier to entry for single-accounters, while yielding pebbles necessary for new gear and trophies.

Edited by Happida
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Edit: *moving away from this topic *

Edited by youbutsu

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UIATRx8.jpg

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Just because you did it the "hard" way doesn't mean others did, would, or should. No leeching nor multilogging is good in my book, but obviously many others disagree. But I personally don't see anything wrong with quests, stars, challenges and achievements.

Nor do I; I have no inclination to brag about accomplishments with outdated systems (Although I do accept compliments).

I am asking our fellow player base if this implementation improves our potential for enjoyment or only creates false difficulty to obfuscate lack of design space?

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Nor do I; I have no inclination to brag about accomplishments with outdated systems (Although I do accept compliments).

I am asking our fellow player base if this implementation improves our potential for enjoyment or only creates false difficulty to obfuscate lack of design space?

It won't be a silver bullet. Grinding will still be necessary, and the game will still be boring sometimes, or all the time for some people. But it will offer something interesting for some people. That seems good enough for me. At least for the short term, idols will only be an addition, and not a replacement.

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Churlish: Contact damage from opponents increases to 100%. +60% XP and loot bonus.

Are they honestly making this idol?

Lv.1 - 200 instanly.

Get Cra/Feca/Elio/Osa/Eni + 3 random characters.

Farm Nidas.

Get money/drops/XP

GG dofus.

As if Nidas wasn't easy enough already xD

Tho I had my time with dofus, time to sell everything :o

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Are they honestly making this idol?

Lv.1 - 200 instanly.

Get Cra/Feca/Elio/Osa/Eni + 3 random characters.

Farm Nidas.

Get money/drops/XP

GG dofus.

As if Nidas wasn't easy enough already xD

Tho I had my time with dofus, time to sell everything :o

The +60% is from the base, and not multiplied by having extra Wisdom. Basically, imagine the boost in XP you get from equipping a Cawwot Dofus. That's the exact same boost as the one that you get from Churlish. It's hardly gamebreaking.

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Still, its not worth doing Frig 3+ / Dim dungeons for drops. Its all about achievements and mats from there...

Nonetheless:

"Churlish: Contact damage from opponents increases to 100%. +60% XP and loot bonus."

increases BY 100%? Can't be "to 100%".

Is this from base? Or just 100%dam more (as stat) for monsters?

Edited by winged-one

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So I am reading these idols wrong, the increase of say 60% isnt 60% extra exp or drop percentage but more like +60 wisdom/PP? Like a 1% power add on for other stats?

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As far as I can tell, no one is being forced to use idols. Dont like it? Dont use them.

If you want to complain about how Ankama is ruining everything, as some people have done with the recent devblogs for critical hits aswell, you can always find something to be very, very upset about.

However, if you stop being so upset and actual try to see the effort Ankama is putting into making the game better, the 2.29 update is really, really decent. They are at least trying to improve things.

- It was without a doubt that the old profession system was outdated and was begging for some improvement. It will be improved, and yet far from perfect, it will be better then the old system.

-The critical hit system was also in a desperate need for an overhaul. Being 1/2 on spells and weapons has become such an obsession for the majority of the players that it made a lot of equipment useless because it would make 1/2 impossible. Again, the new system still has (a lot) of discussable things, like the Turq dofus being only +10, but at least the immense need to be 1/2 will be gone and 2.29 will give players a lot more options to try out other equipment. Being 45% instead of 50% isn't that big of a deal, compared to being 1/4 versus 1/2.

-And at last, the subject of this topic: the difficulty of the game. That will always be the hardest part to balance. Monsters, and certainly dungeons, always had a 'fixed' rate of difficulty: it has already been altered a lot with the HP and other stats being influenced by the amount of people trying, but still, for some people the dimensions might be way to difficult, yet frigost is too easy and becomes boring. Challenges and the stuff in dimenions (forgot the name of the random events) are options to increase the difficulty, but they are random, not controlled by players themself: both can be dodged. Failing challenges if they are too hard, of portal spamming for the next event often happen if the random factor makes the fight too difficult.

With the idols, Ankama adds an extra option where players, for the first time, can actually control the difficulty. For a long time, I've been stuck between frigost 2 en 3: 3 was too hard being around 195, yet constantly grinding frigost 2 was too easy and not rewarding enough. Being able to control frigost 2 with idols to not only improve your skills but also the rewards of it, could have been a perfect option (but I rage quite and actually started studying again). The idols are definitely not the new egg of columbus, and again, the idol system is far from perfect. But its a start, cause for the first time, players can control what they are facing as an extra challenge.

I remember the times before frigost: players rarely got any information about the upcoming updates, frigost kept being postponed without futher information and system improvements were always quite radical. Compared to that, 2.29 is a blessing. Devblogs with detailled information but most importantly, Ankama admitting the flaws in the system, and being aware that they are trying to fix them, with very small staps each time. Like the devblog said: the wisdom/pp system still is the same as when the game started, but overhauling it would be too radical. Things like Idols are the first preparing actions for a bigger thing that they wanna do.

Note: 2.29 will be released by the time I'm graduating, so it would be a great way for me to return to the game, thats why I'm so hyped about it. People who keep looking for things to complain about it annoy me.

you-seem-a-little-irritable-kyle-you-got

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