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Monology

Update 2.29: new Critical Hit system

187 posts in this topic

How does the math stand if you factor in say 50 crit damages? Or if you using tread fast closer to 80?

The math also cherry picks one of the worst examples, there are many spells that are higher than 1/50 and/or have a higher bonus on crit. It also doesn't take into account stats like crit damage like you said.

Not to mention the math is completely wrong, 1000int doesn't multiply your damage by 1000 it raises it by 1000%.

Edited by Pereb
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Yeah but he's doing it over 100 hits... So 1000% is * 10 then do that 100 times = * 1000

I agree it's misleading though...

I've never had a turq nor have I ever strived for 1/2 crits (except way back in the day with ingthaiphoons hammer) so I'm not really sure how to feel about all of it. I do agree that 10 seems low for a dofus but because a trophy counterpart doesn't exist like most dofus... I guess they can get away with it...

Edited by Ace-McCloud
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I suppose I'm feeling a little grateful as this change won't affect me as much as others who will probably have to make some quite big changes. My sram for example is in a set with 41 crits and no turq at the moment so this is a huge buff for me in that respect.

My eni (using new trophies) has only had to change niliza cloak back to eculture and swap age old hat to a nomarrow so I've lost a bit of int and a bit of vit which isn't a big deal. I can work on over maging a nice nomarrow hat and ring I guess now. Still 11/6 still over 1k int and 4k vit and 100 heals. Suits me just fine for pvm

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Yeah but he's doing it over 100 hits... So 1000% is * 10 then do that 100 times = * 1000

I agree it's misleading though...

No.

40 crit hits * 22,5 * 1000 = 900.000 damage

60 non crit hits * 18,5 * 1000 = 1.110.000 damage

You don't do 1m damage in 100 hits in this game with any spell except like wrath in specific conditions.

Edited by Pereb

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Not saying all the math Is correct just letting you know how he got *1000 for 1000 intelligence :p

I'm not going to check his math haha I don't care nearly enough for that.

Edited by Ace-McCloud

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Not saying all the math Is correct just letting you know how he got *1000 for 1000 intelligence :P

I'm not going to check his math haha I don't care nearly enough for that.

Did you read the quote in my post? He already counted 100 hits before the *1000.

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Dudes, chillax. He's high by a factor of 100, the difference still exists. It's only 3% higher without the Turq. There are spells that benefit and those that don't. He's missing the numbers with current 1/2 crits and current 1060 int, low chance of crits. That would be the apt comparision.

And regardless, it's a problem with Forbidden Word as much as anything! Fix Enis. :)

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And regardless, it's a problem with Forbidden Word as much as anything! Fix Enis. :)

Sadida's Bramble and Bushfire are also 1/50 crit base.

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Did you read the quote in my post? He already counted 100 hits before the *1000.

Sure if that's the case you're correct... Still not caring nearly as much as you though :p

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you cant fucking multiply 20 by 1000 and say its 1000% of 20.

40 ( 22,5 ) (1 + 1000/100) = blablablab
60 ( 18,5 ) (1 + 1000/100) = blablalbalbal
30 ( 22,5 ) (1 + 1060/100) = blablalbalb
70 ( 18,5 ) (1 + 1060/100) = blalblaba

stop being bad.

edit: jerm wont let you multiply by zero so will force you to add 1 be careful

edit: hi goofball

Edited by bobeur
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Reminder to please keep it civil. Don't use a controversial major update as an excuse to attack each other, especially over the little things like math errors.

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ok, right - this went wrong.

Forbidden word (1/50 spell):

crit: 21-24 (avg 22,5)
noncrit: 17-20 (avg 18,5)

Old system:

currently 1/2 is just:

50(times of 100) * 18,5 damage * 1100 stat% = 10.175 damage
50(times of 100) * 22,5 damage * 1100 stat% = 12.375 damage
== 22.550damage

after patch, that 1/50 spells base crit will be 5%

My eni got +45 Ch now and will have just +35 after patch because Turq is going down from 20 to 10.

So forbidden word will have 5% base cits + my +35% crits = 40% final crits.

40% crits and 1000int, hitting 100 times will be:

40(times of 100) * 22,5 damage * 1100 stat% = 9900 damage
60(times of 100) * 18,5 damage * 1100 stat% = 12.210 damage
== 22.110 damage

30% crits and 1060 int (sholar instead of turq), hitting 100 times will be:
30(times of 100) * 22,5 damage * 1160 stat% = 7830 damage
70(times of 100) * 18,5 damage * 1160 stat% = 15.022 damage
== 22.852 damage

Healing word (1/35 spell)

15avg heal noncrit

17 heal crit

Current system:

50(times of 100) * 15 heals * 1100stat% = 8250 heals

50(times of 100) * 17 heals * 1100stat% = 9350 heals

== 17.600 heals

after patch, 1/35 spells will have a 20% base crit rate; my 45% are going down to 35% (turq nerf) + 20% = 55% crit:

45(times of 100) * 15 heals * 1100stat% = 7425 heals
55(times of 100) * 17 heals * 1100stat% = 10285 heals

== 17.710 heals.

Enu MOUND 1/30

19,5noncrit - 24crit

now: @ 1/2

50(times of 100) * 19,5 *1100 stat% = 10.725

50(times of 100) * 24 *1100 stat% = 13.200

== 23.925 dam

after patch, same gear:

Base crit for 1/30 = 25%, adding 35CH from gear (45-10) = 60% crits.

40(times of 100) * 19,5 *1100 stat% = 8580
60(times of 100) * 24 *1100 stat% = 15.840

== 24.420 dam

removing turq (-=10ch) and adding 60 stat trophy (sacrificing 10% crits = 50 crits)

50(times of 100) * 19,5 *1160 stat% = 11.310
50(times of 100) * 24 *1160 stat% = 13.920

== 25.230 dam.

This is a very good spell regarding crit bonus.

Even though, sacrificing 10% crit for 60 stat will be a buff !

(not taking +critdam gear into consideration, thats a different story!)

Apologies for my miscalculations and the harassment that resulted, pereb

you could have also posted the solution since it was clear where my mistake was.

No need to flame it up....

Edited by winged-one
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I did some tests with crit/crit damage sets,and having the turq was, at best, barely..and I mean Barely worth it compared to powerhouse or even the 60 stat trophies. And if I had used the new, more powerful trophies..if you haven't yet, check out the thread on JoL about it(in French of course), they have some neat graphs and whatnot! >o>

Edited by Snarkles

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Considering how much everyone is focusing on "I must reach epic crit rates", it seems using a Major Powerhouse and a Queen of Thieves set, along with the +32 crit res trophy can be rather useful. The downside is, if you have a lot of 1/30 spells, you'll need to mage your crits on your set down (or off) to lower your crit rates considerably.

1/30 Spells are currently a 3.3% rate to crit, however they'll be 25% in the new system, which will be 1/4 (which is an incredible buff for chars with 0 or positive Crit damage, but a nasty nerf for anyone with Negative Crit damage) - you'd need to use a Major Powerhouse for -12 Crits to simply get this from 25% down to 13%, Which will be just over a 1/8 crit rate, which is still remarkably high already.

If you use a Major Powerhouse, Stilted Shovel and Nocturnowl Amulet however, you can get yourself to enough negative crits that you'll never Crit, though. Not usually all that beneficial, but can be vs all the Crit res stacking chars.

Its even possible to do math for this.

Looking at enis forbidden word:

crit: 21-24 (avg 22,5)

noncrit: 17-20 (avg 18,5)

imagine you got 40% crits and 1000int, hitting 100 times will be:

40 * 22,5 * 1000 = 900.000 damage

60 * 18,5 * 1000 = 1.110.000 damage

== 2.010.000 damage

imagine you got 30% crits and 1060 int (sholar instead of turq), hitting 100 times will be:

30 * 22,5 * 1060 = 715.500 damage

70 * 18,5 * 1060 = 1.372.700 damage

== 2.088.200 damage

math wrong or got a turq beaten by major sholar?

They need to raise turq ch% or its not worth eqipping ^^

I think the problem here is that you are calculating the first set with a turq, without a +60 stat trophy. I may only be speaking for myself, but I think that in almost all situations, people will manage to fit a +60 Stat trophy in along with a turq. If you're using the new trophies, you might not because you'll possibly using Shaker and/or Nomad which will take up an additional trophy slot.

The other issue, is that if you take Crit Damage into account, Turq's become a lot more useful....If you calculate that you're targetting a Crit Res char, you'll be hitting less on average with a turq.

There are too many factors across the board per spell, vs targets res and whether or not you have crit damage.

Overall, this new change CAN be a buff, but in other cases this can be a nerf.

I think this can be beneficial if you make it so, but it'll be a nerf if you arent willing to adapt to the changes.

Theres setups which will drop your stats minorly but increase your +crits greatly, but you'll be sacrificing other parts such as AP/MP Res/Reduction, Dodge/Lock, initiative, Vitality, Res%... (Not all at once, but overall these types of stats will be dropped)

Nomarow for Int/Agi chars can get you pretty sweet crits, Add TF Ammy/Belt and some other High Crit pieces and you're looking at 55+ crits.

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little things like math errors.

o.O

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The only problem i see are daggers beeing to OP after patch.

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100% Crit chance Flintes...hmm yeah balanced xD

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I was bothered that non crit builds that have negative crit damage would have problems with 15-25% crit spells, but a mayor powerhouse solves that for the most part.

I wonder if the devs are ok with dofuses becoming niche equipment that barely surpass trophies.

Also, they totally missed the oportunity to make chance useful with a critical hit bonus.

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The other issue, is that if you take Crit Damage into account, Turq's become a lot more useful....If you calculate that you're targetting a Crit Res char, you'll be hitting less on average with a turq.

You will be hitting around the same on 120-140 ch res factor in that you will deal the bonus crit damage from the weapon or spell and + the crit damage bonus on your gear, anymore ch res you would hit less, you will just be wasting that egg slot for a useless item. If the spell/weapon had multi-elemental damage like a Blord sword for instance it will null 120-140 x 5 which then would be considerably less.

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Technically crit damage is slightly more effective than crit resist on a 1:1 basis, because linear resistances take place before % resistances - effectively reducing the reduction provided by crit resist by your % resistance to that element. That said, crit resistance is much more abundant than crit damage.

However on the other hand you have to consider that for every 200 crit res char theres probably five with -40 crit res.

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Beware the Soft Dragon Oak Pig.

I reached the point of clapping like a retarted seal when I read that. Best comment of the entire topic.

Manbearpig_by_domxho.jpg

I bet Ankama devs are defending the 10% turq like, super duper serial.

People tend to forget that with the %CH system, being 1/2 isnt thát essential anymore. It creates other options.

As Ankama explained, the old system had the enormous flaw that you either had 50% crit rate (1/2), or 33,3% (1/3) as second best. 25% (1/4) would be the 3rd option as 'the best possible'

With the new system of linear tiers for a CH, the 'being 1/2 or go home' attitude is gone. You can be 45%, almost as good as 1/2, and max out other stats (as proven above, using a trophy instead of a dofus might work better, depending what you want).

The new system, and the low turq dofus, is another step of Ankama breaking up the usual options you have in endgame. You can do whatever you feel suited for yourself, now the 'obsession' with 1/2 will be removed.

Also: no more getting a better Turq cause your new set up lacks that 1 or 2 CH you need.

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I have to admit I totally lost it at first when I thought this was a dead end for 1/2 sets. But now I'm testing things out and I reallly like it.

One of the coolest things is having a set of attacks that crit 65% of the time while having other spells hit 40% of the time basically giving a serious boost in damage versus crit res. While at the same time using the 65% spells on negative crit weakness. The variety is making this change very fun indeed.

Amey

p.s If I freak out like this again in the future, slap sense into me pls, I have an illness called nerfaphobia. :3

Edited by Nocturnus
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Not even April fools wow.

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One of the coolest things is having a set of attacks that crit 65% of the time while having other spells hit 40% of the time basically giving a serious boost in damage versus crit res. While at the same time using the 65% spells on negative crit weakness. The variety is making this change very fun indeed.

Thank you, the math will suck for me (I suck at math and got too many chars) but this was exactly what I was hoping for. Now I look forward to this change.

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Is there any monsters with crit res?

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