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    • Rob

      Server Merge and Changes to Imps Village   04/30/17

      The old server sections will still be viewable at the bottom of the forum list under Legacy Servers, but read only. If you wish for any thread to be moved to the new sections, please report your own thread to bring it to our attention and tell us where you need it to go.
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Dacheat

Imps Village Rule Update (2015)

40 posts in this topic

Howdy Friends.

People have given me new buttons to push so I've enlisted some help for our moderators, new and old, to revisit the rules once drawn up by Overlord Kyek. With a new group of mods, an ever changing Ankama TOS, and a growing community it’s long past due that we make some housekeeping changes, thus, we are banning you all! Okay I kid, we are however making some much needed changes to rules and guidelines which I've listed bellow.

Lets start first with the Imps Village rules. These remain mostly identical to the original writings. If you've read them since we moved to the new version of IBP a couple years ago you'll notice that the broken links are now gone or fixed. We've added a small clause that points inter-server trading to market place rules. Finally we're also looking to crack down a bit more on casual racism and sexism, we've added a line:

Racism/Sexism/Bigotry: Racism/Sexism/Bigotry: Racial slurs are unacceptable regardless of ethnic background. It's not allowed.

Casual use of the above: In addition the use of homophobic, racist, violent, or sexist language even in a causal or joking context, can be harmful and hurtful to people you might not expect, please be sensitive in your speech.


We feel like usage these terms even without the intent of being harmful can be seen negatively especially by those on the outside and new users. Remember that people other than those the joke is intended for will be reading it. (The changed text can be seen in larger font.)

Signature rule change. We've decided the signature rules that came over from forums 1.0 didn't quite live up to the standards we were hoping for. If you remember large signatures were contained to a small scroll-able box and despite the boxes being annoying they were limited in size. We hope to bring back the original size limit as well as remove the need to additional scrolling.

Market Place rules/guidelines have also been updated. We've expanding on inter-server trading, and hopefully made protocol for including prices, points of contact, and topic closing more clear. You know, since we haven't yet developed a mind control device to get people to include price. Really, it's not that hard and it makes life easier for everyone.

I'm going to leave this open for comments for a couple days. We do appreciate input, and I hope to have a couple more exciting announcements in the coming months. ;)

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Imps Village Rules

The short version:


If you do anything here that you're not sure would be allowed, or if you do something that hurts someone, expect consequences. You can be anything from moderated to suspended to permanently banned here -- and we *hate* having to do that. Walk away from petty arguments and contribute to the happy side of the forum :)


The longer version:


The above is the golden rule. Below is a nice itemized list of the things we don't like to see. Below are the most common types of spam that will be immediately deleted. Other posts not explicitly stated as spam may be deleted if they are found to be disruptive to the thread.

  • Posting nonsense
  • Only posting "lol" (or some alternative form)
  • Only posting a smiley (or multiple smilies)
  • Posting "+1"
  • Posting repeatedly
  • Bumping needlessly, including posting in very old threads without any actual contribution (AKA Necromancy)
  • Quoting a post without any additional input added
  • Quoting a post, changing some words, and replying with a "Fixed." message
  • Only replying with a 4chan reference/meme/image macro
  • Posts that start with "I know this is going to be deleted, but..." or any similar form
tlktlk: We understand that not every member is fluent in English, but we can tell the difference between people having trouble expressing themselves in a foreign language and someone talking in either tlktlkor purposely being obnoxious. Make the effort to write out your thoughts in a readable way or you run the risk of having your posts deleted as spam.
Griefing: Going out of your way to harass (or draw harassment to) another person. This includes abusing PMs or the profile comment system.
Insulting Don't like someone's ideas? Politely explain why, or walk away. Intelligent/heated debate is perfectly acceptable but throwing around insults is not. Threads that result in flames will be moderated appropriately.
Racism/Sexism/Bigotry: Racial slurs are unacceptable regardless of ethnic background. It's not allowed.
Casual use of the above: In addition the use of homophobic, racist, violent, or sexist language even in a causal or joking context, can be harmful and hurtful to people you might not expect, please be sensitive in your speech.
Name-Shaming: If you have a problem with a person or guild as a whole, this is not your sounding board no matter where you post it. Do not mock, ridicule or accuse other players without proof. We don't tolerate hurting others here.
Scamming: If you do it on the forum, it's almost always an instant perma-ban. If you do it outside the forum, you'll be banned at our discretion, which is almost always an instant perma-ban. Learn how to report a scammer by visiting the Scammer's Registry.
Pyramid schemes: If you think you've found a great website that awards you money for every click/survey/recruit, and you want to use our members to not only boost your own account but also 'spread the love', then you're engaging in a pyramid scheme, which we do not allow here.
Inappropriate content: Posts with mature or NSFW content should be labeled with either [Mature] or [NSFW] in the subject. That said, we do not allow random pornography here, or other disturbing content. Moderators will use their best judgment in deleting inappropriate threads.
Duplicate accounts: We allow one account per person. Due to duplicate accounts being used in scams here, the admins reserve the right to insta-ban anyone who registers more than one account. If your account was banned and you make a second account to circumvent it, it will be banned without warning.
TOS Breaking: As a general guideline, anything illegal in Ankama's Terms of Service is illegal here. The following actions are strictly forbidden.
  • Selling/Buying Kamas
  • Selling/Buying In-game Items (clearly, we mean with real-world money)
  • Selling/Buying Player Accounts
  • Cross-server trading - See Market Place guidelines.
  • Advertising any of the above
Currently, the only things we allow here that may not match Ankama's TOS are discussing test servers and posting game spoilers. After all, that's why this forum isn't official. ;-) *Sidenote* Trading kamas for art commissions is acceptable.
General Negativity: Occasionally we get members who may not necessarily be breaking any other rules, but act in such an aggravating, trolling manner that they consistently make the experience worse for an extremely large portion of other forum members. The mods will use their best judgment in finding these users, and may use anything from a long-term mute to a permanent ban to rid the forum of such unnecessary negativity. If people actively dislike you and you don't care to improve, you may be a candidate for this label.
Posting private information: We don't tolerate any form of obviously private information being posted on these forums. The following information is strictly forbidden from being posted.
  • Any account username or password
  • Another member's e-mail address, Skype name, or other form of contact information
  • A phone number, or address
  • Private messages from other members
  • Private messages from moderators or admins
  • Your warn log
  • Another players IP
If you must share sensitive information, please use the PM system or a more secure communication method.
Asking for game materials, claiming you were "hacked" or "scammed: "While we appreciate and can sympathize when this happens to people, it's all too often that people claim to have been hacked just to benefit from others' good nature. Since the frequency of this is astronomically greater than the frequency of people actually being hacked, this behavior is forbidden. More details in this thread. The "Shit Happens" Clause We're sorry to say sometimes bad things happen to good people. If you drop equipment on the floor and people run off with it, if you don't lock a fight and someone jumps it, if you get aggressed on your way to a dungeon...these things happen. There's nothing anyone can do about it so don't make a huge fuss about it on the forum.
Alphanumeric Usernames: All registered forum users' usernames must comply to alphanumeric character sets. (This does not apply to your custom title). Consequences: On these forums, between the moderator staff and admin staff, we have the following abilities:
  • Edit
  • Delete
  • Force Moderation (we must approve every post you make)
  • Silence (you can read, but you can't post)
  • Ban

Always remember, moderators can edit or delete posts that conflict with one or more of the rules without consulting or notifying the poster. If your topic or post is moderated and you disagree, contact a mod or submit a report when in doubt, do not re-post it. In every case that arises, we will use whatever tool we judge will solve the problem best. But we hate doing that . . so just refer to the short version. Don't Be A Dick! That's all for now! Thanks :) Kyek, and the rest of the Imps Village moderator team
Updated 31/1/2015

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Signature Rules:

Until now there haven’t really been limitations on signatures, the previous limits were set at: Up to 6 (700x400 pixels) images, up to 6 URLs, up to 12 lines
And while for the most part you guys are awesome and have simple and pretty signatures there are those who like to push the limits of what is visually appealing.

Annoyed yet?

Now a simple solution would be to limit signatures to one 700x400 image, but there are those who use multiple small images effectively and elegantly. I’ll call out Blanka / Chunlii's signature as an example of elegant and absolutely adorable use of 4 little gifs.

Amano-Ginji - 200 Sac * * * *
-Blanka- - 167 Sadi *
-Blanket- - 200 Eni * *
Chun-Lii - 200 Panda * * *
Shootin-Blank - 200 Cra

prof list http://impsvillage.com/forums/topic/123373-blankas-prof-list/page__pid__1212022#entry1212022

knightdance1.gifyello.gifknightdance4.gifknightdance3.gif


After some deliberation we’ve decided on the following signature guidelines.
Up to 4 (700x400 pixels) images, up to 4 URLs, up to 6 lines with an approximate total size of 700x400 for the entire signature.

Let me explain. The 700x400 total size isn’t hard coded (because of forum limitation) so if your sig is 700x401 no one is really going to fuss. But we want to find a standardized size. Since the rules only impact a small number of people there won’t be any retroactive change to the settings. Your current signature will stand. It will apply only to new members and as people change their signature. Now, if you have crazy large signature (you know who you are!) We’ll try and casually poke you into changing it over the next week or two before we drop it in a {spoiler} tag.

Market place rules
A More transparent warning system
And fixing the IV rules (which have been broken since the upgrade)

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Market Place Rules

Equipment threads (Low-Epic level etc)

Time to make some kamas or perhaps get rid of some old junk that's just taking up your pods! This is definitely the place to do it! Please make sure to follow these guidelines in order to assure your topic is not deleted. When making a thread it is best to follow a general template so that other people can easily browse, please use the abbreviations listed below in order to simplify thread titles.

Guidelines

  • Always make sure you're using the correct server forum and category. (i.e., Rushu -> Mid Level Equipment)
  • Provide your in-game name in your post.
  • Provide a general time of play, if possible, so customers can better contact you.
  • Be sure to mark your thread title correctly. Refer to the list below.
  • Sellers should always include the stats of their equipment if applicable.
  • Always include a sale price or an offering price. We understand it can be hard to price exactly what you'll pay for equipment with varying statistics.. therefore a price range will suffice.

- We ask for prices to be posted so that these forums can provide as a reference to future sellers / buyers as well as working as an active trading area.

Abbreviations
B > Buying
S > Selling
T > Trading
A > Auctioning
PC > Price Check

(Please note Moderators may adjust titles to fit these specifications)

Other Rules

  • Exchange of Non-Dofus items is strictly forbidden. (i.e., swapping an item from Runescape with Dofus)
  • Purchasing in-game items with real money is strictly forbidden.
  • Inter-server trades are forbidden unless one party states that they will purchase a server transfer in order to complete the transaction.
  • In other words, inter-server trades are allowed provided that both parties agree to carry out their exchange on one server. If this is the case, please make note of this on your post.
  • Account trading is strictly forbidden.
  • Begging for items is not allowed.
  • Please stick to sales. General discussion of items can be taken to the other forums.
  • Excessive bumping may result in your topic being locked. Please only bump the topic when necessary.

If you're intending to move an item through the official server transfer system.. and are posting an advert on the server it will be on, you must specify the date of transfer and any extra costs that may incur.

Example:

B > Toady
---------------------
Hi, I am looking to buy a toady with 30 or more agi. I am offering 50kk. Please leave a post or message me in game (I usually play 8 PM - 11:30 PM EST).

IGN: Unicorns-Arereal
---------------------

Closing a Topic

Once you have completed your sale/purchase please follow these guidelines in order to correctly close your topic.

  • Edit your topic title to include [CLOSED].
  • Edit your original post to note that the topic will be closed.
  • Contact a moderator by clicking the Report button in your original post and sending us a message such as "Finished my sale, can you please lock my topic?"

Do not delete the topic name, or the topic content. We want to keep all topics so people can browse the forums for general price ranges on items.

Example:

B > Toady [CLOSED]
---------------------
Hi, I am looking to buy a toady with 30 or more agi. I am offering 50kk. Please leave a post or message me in game (I usually play 8 PM - 11:30 PM EST).

IGN: Unicorns-Arereal

EDIT: Item bought!! Thanks!

Repeatedly ignoring these rules will cause a warning point being issued. Continued problems may result in auto removal of offending threads or the right to post being suspended.

[End]

​Real estate

Looking to find a buyer for your property, or perhaps climb the ladder yourself? Then this is definitely the place to do it! Please make sure to follow these guidelines in order to assure your topic is not deleted. When making a thread it is best to follow a general template so that other people can easily browse.

Guidelines

  • Always make sure you're using the correct server forum and category. (i.e., Rushu -> Imps Reality)
  • Provide your in-game name in your post.
  • Provide a general time of play, if possible, so customers can better contact you.
  • Make sure to include the position of the property you are selling.
  • Always include details of your property. (i.e., number of paddock slots or number of house chests)
  • If you are selling, you are not required to post prices upon opening the topic. However we politely ask that once the sale has completed you edit the price your property sold at into the OP. This also applies to those offering to buy property.

- We ask for prices to be posted after sale so that these forums can provide as a reference to future sellers / buyers as well as working as an active trading area.

Abbreviations

B > Buying
S > Selling
T > Trading
A > Auctioning
PC > Price Check
(Please note Moderators may adjust titles to fit these specifications)

Other Rules

  • Exchange of Non-Dofus items is strictly forbidden. (i.e., swapping an item from Runescape with Dofus)
  • Purchasing in-game items with real money is strictly forbidden.
  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden. (i.e., Trading a House on server X with one on server Y)
  • Please stick to sales. General discussion of items can be taken to the other forums.
  • Excessive bumping may result in your topic being closed. Please only bump the topic when necessary.

Example:

S> 7 slot paddock (-1 0)
---------------------
Hi, I am selling my 7 slot paddock located at -1 0. Please leave a post or message me in game regarding prices (I usually play 8 PM - 11:30 PM EST).
IGN: Unicorns-Arereal

---------------------

Closing a Topic

Once you have completed your sale/purchase please follow these guidelines in order to correctly close your topic.

  • Edit your topic title to include [CLOSED].
  • Edit your original post to note that the topic will be closed.
  • Contact a moderator by clicking the Report button in your original post and sending us a message such as "Finished my sale, can you please lock my topic?"

Do not delete the topic name, or the topic content. We want to keep all topics so people can browse the forums for general price ranges on items.

Example:

S > 7 slot paddock (-1 0) [CLOSED]
---------------------
Hi, I am selling my 7 slot paddock located at -1 0. Please leave a post or message me in game regarding prices (I usually play 8 PM - 11:30 PM EST).
IGN: Unicorns-Arereal
EDIT: Sold for 100mk! Thanks!!

Repeatedly ignoring these rules will cause a warning point being issued. Continued problems may result in auto removal of offending threads or the right to post being suspended.

[End]

In-game Merchants

Recently set up your merchant in-game, want to advertise what's in your bag to a wider audience? Then this is definitely the place to do it! Please make sure to follow these guidelines in order to assure your topic is not deleted. When making a thread it is best to follow a general template so that other people can easily browse.

Guidelines

  • Always make sure you're using the correct server forum and category. (i.e., Rushu -> In-Game Merchants)
  • Provide your in-game name in your post along with your merchants location(s).
  • Please include either a screenshot, or an itemised list of what you have for sale.
  • If applicable indicate when your merchant will / won't be available.

Other Rules

  • Exchange of Non-Dofus items is strictly forbidden. (i.e., swapping an item from Runescape with Dofus)
  • Purchasing in-game items with real money is strictly forbidden.
  • Cross-server trading is strictly forbidden. (i.e., Trading a House on server X with one on server Y)
  • Please stick to sales. General discussion of items can be taken to the other forums.
  • Excessive bumping may result in your topic being closed. Please only bump the topic when necessary.
  • The sale of in-game merchant spots is forbidden on these forums.

Example:

Unicorns-Arereal's merchant (-1, 0)
---------------------
Hi, I've set up my merchant at -1 0 in Amakna Village, it should be around until next Tuesday. See below:

d9ac2faab6e0009cdc501322fc0f2951.png
IGN: Unicorns-Arereal

---------------------

Closing a Topic

Once you've removed your merchant please follow these guidelines in order to correctly close your topic.

  • Edit your topic title to include [CLOSED].
  • Edit your original post to note that the topic will be closed.
  • Contact a moderator by clicking the Report button in your original post and sending us a message such as "Finished my sale, can you please lock my topic?"

Do not delete the topic name, or the topic content. We want to keep all topics so people can browse the forums for general price ranges on items.

Example:

Unicorns-Arereal's merchant (-1, 0) [Closed]
---------------------
Hi, I've set up my merchant at -1 0 in Amakna Village, it should be around until next Tuesday. See below:

[image]

Edit: Merchant's over, thanks!!!
IGN: Unicorns-Arereal
---------------------

Repeatedly ignoring these rules will cause a warning point being issued. Continued problems may result in auto removal of offending threads or the right to post being suspended.

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As no one has responded in defiance, I assume you're all okay with that small clause in section five paragraph seven indicating immediate world domination to myself and my evil sidekick Mr Hamster.

That's great, we can wrap up the discussion stage now!

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Phew :rolleyes: thank god you didn't forbid me to post my turqs B-)

OT. Nice to see some changes

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Phew :rolleyes: thank god you didn't forbid me to post my turqs B-)

Damn, I knew we'd forgotten something...

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It is now forbidden to make other IV users feel bad about themselves by showcasing your own extreme luck. Posting too many Turqs per time will result in a permanent ban. Effective immediately.

Sorry Caps!

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I honestly Like this change since there used to be many horrifying sigs. Mine ive cut down alot because I dont want it to be HUGE i just want the info to be there and thats it! super short and simple.

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You have a very nice and clean signature indeed.

NpwzEDz.png

Edit:

To be on topic. I still think the "post price plz or feel our wrath" part is kind of annoying because it's never accurate. Instead it would be much more useful to give the seller/buyer a time frame to post the price the bought or sold it for. That way the whole system is much more accurate and you won't get the endless discussion about how hard it is to post a price on something like real estate, rare exos/items or anything.
I like imps, and want to use it, but when the rules get too strict it takes all the fun out. I would hate to see that because of some silly rules.

"If you don't like how these forums are moderated, go trade elsewhere" is not the culture I would expect from imps.

Edited by bobeur
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I agree that the 'post price in threads' is a bit too strict. Since not everyone actually always know how much worth a piece is. I often just post a random amount for certain pieces since I do not know how much it really cost.

And I honesty think if I put a too low price to like buy something, nobody would respond or something ._. since I got the price wrong most likely.

For newer people this can be a problem.

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I agree that the 'post price in threads' is a bit too strict. Since not everyone actually always know how much worth a piece is. I often just post a random amount for certain pieces since I do not know how much it really cost.

And I honesty think if I put a too low price to like buy something, nobody would respond or something ._. since I got the price wrong most likely.

For newer people this can be a problem.

I don't think I agree with this. Unless you're buying adventurer gear you always have some notion of what you should be paying vs what you want to pay. Just like a seller always has some minimum price they're thinking of. Say I want to buy Treadfast Boots. I probably want to pay about 11m but am ready to actually spend 12-14 where as the seller probably wants to sell for 16m but will likely take between 12-15

I think the "S> some rare item" -> " give me an offer" is a poor trick to find someone who is willing to overpay for the item you're trying to sell. Without some initial starting point that's what marketplace threads boil down to.

And if you realize the price you put was too low or high you can always edit it or add another post.

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About how hard it is to post a price on something like real estate, rare exos/items or anything.

This is an extract from the Real Estate section, which I believe solves half your qaurrel. For the seccond half Dach has answered it well. ^.^

  • If you are selling, you are not required to post prices upon opening the topic. However we politely ask that once the sale has completed you edit the price your property sold at into the OP. This also applies to those offering to buy property.
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I don't think I agree with this. Unless you're buying adventurer gear you always have some notion of what you should be paying vs what you want to pay. Just like a seller always has some minimum price they're thinking of. Say I want to buy Treadfast Boots. I probably want to pay about 11m but am ready to actually spend 12-14 where as the seller probably wants to sell for 16m but will likely take between 12-15

I think the "S> some rare item" -> " give me an offer" is a poor trick to find someone who is willing to overpay for the item you're trying to sell. Without some initial starting point that's what marketplace threads boil down to.

And if you realize the price you put was too low or high you can always edit it or add another post.

I would think for a sell a price is needed, Since I do agree with your point that it is possible that someone overpay it. I recently tried to buy a Xelomorph Cloak but I have like no idea how much it is. So me personally would do a low price in the market since I'm afraid if I do too high I will overpay. But I am also afraid since I have it so low if people actually will contact me asking me if I buy for higher (like the normal price that they might know).

Its really about the equipment/resourced that isnt so popular and not many people know price of. If someone do know the price of an item they should set up how much they are willing to pay. Since it makes more sense to me. xD

I understand your argument though. :)

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This is an extract from the Real Estate section, which I believe solves half your qaurrel. For the seccond half Dach has answered it well. ^.^

My apologies, it seems I had missed that part.

But you get my point, the topics with titles S>item x [sOLD] and all the contents in the thread replaced by either 'sold' or 'close please' making the topic irrelevant for any future use of price indication are so annoying*.

* pls ban these people 5ever kthx

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My apologies, it seems I had missed that part.

But you get my point, the topics with titles S>item x [sOLD] and all the contents in the thread replaced by either 'sold' or 'close please' making the topic irrelevant for any future use of price indication are so annoying*.

* pls ban these people 5ever kthx

We try to remove those threads if we see them, but there's very little we can do if people choose to act like well.. that.

*hints at the handy dandy report button*

*Okay, I ban you kthnx?

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You have a very nice and clean signature indeed.

NpwzEDz.png

Edit:

To be on topic. I still think the "post price plz or feel our wrath" part is kind of annoying because it's never accurate. Instead it would be much more useful to give the seller/buyer a time frame to post the price the bought or sold it for. That way the whole system is much more accurate and you won't get the endless discussion about how hard it is to post a price on something like real estate, rare exos/items or anything.

I like imps, and want to use it, but when the rules get too strict it takes all the fun out. I would hate to see that because of some silly rules.

"If you don't like how these forums are moderated, go trade elsewhere" is not the culture I would expect from imps.

I only have a clean sig right now because im working on a simple one that will Provide all the details people need to know about me :P Sadly I dont think itll be done for awhile tho

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We try to remove those threads if we see them, but there's very little we can do if people choose to act like well.. that.

*hints at the handy dandy report button*

*Okay, I ban you kthnx?

Yes plz so I stop spending time reading imps all day while I need to do something useful instead :ph34r:

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So much work only to say "use common sense", haha :D!

I'm glad you guys are enforcing the rules a tad harder. It's needed, unfortunately.

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Racism/Sexism/Bigotry: Racial slurs are unacceptable regardless of ethnic background. It's not allowed.

Casual use of the above: In addition the use of homophobic, racist, violent, or sexist language even in a causal or joking context, can be harmful and hurtful to people you might not expect, please be sensitive in your speech.

Thank you for this. In most, if not all, online communities, this is usually my main problem. Usually a bunch of kids/teens, even adults, would make sexist/racist/homophobic jokes ("go back to the kitchen" statements, calling people 'fag', etc. etc.) about other players without realising how offensive it can be. It's nice to see you guys not ignoring that problem.

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I recently tried to buy a Xelomorph Cloak but I have like no idea how much it is. So me personally would do a low price in the market since I'm afraid if I do too high I will overpay. But I am also afraid since I have it so low if people actually will contact me asking me if I buy for higher (like the normal price that they might know).

Actually, the main reason we're heavy on the prices rule is because we'd like to prevent a situation like this from happening. Completed marketplace threads with prices are locked and kept where they were, so that in the future someone will be able to do a quick search of the item name in their server's subforum, and they'll get a list of past exchanges that they can use. Essentially the marketplace forums should be able to act as both places of commerce and archives for the future. People participating correctly AND NOT BLANKING THEIR THREADS AT THE END means that the quantity of good price data will just keep increasing =D

As an example, if you search "Turq" in here you'll be greeted with all the pricing data you could ever want for every Turq variety. Another example would be the Fragment items; search those items and you'll be able to see for yourself how the price changes over time thanks to threads with prices.

While I'm here talking about this, this goes out to everyone, PLEASE STOP DELETING THE CONTENTS OF YOUR THREADS ONCE YOU BUY/SELL YOUR ITEM because that makes your thread worthless to literally everyone and that's lame.

Edited by Kiba
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Can someone tell me how to use more than 6 lines with the spoiler tag? I'm just getting a message that the signature cannot be more than 6 lines (I want the 2 images to be stacked, not next to each other). I was told the spoiler tag can provide "secret space" for longer signatures.

Edited by Goatee

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I was told the spoiler tag can provide "secret space" for longer signatures.

Not sure where you heard this but I don't think it's true. the forums just see how many new lines you've added doesn't matter if they're in a spoiler tag or not.

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Well, then 6 lines isn't nearly enough.

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If two images next to each other are wider than 700px it should* stack underneath.

*I haven't actually tested it so I may be spewing nonsense.

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