[666]

Ala, on 03 February 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm fully aware that some people buy Ogrines and sub with them (particularly if they wanna sub multiple accs). But I wasn't talking about those people. This was only in response to the debate whether it's better if people subbing with Ogrines-for-kamas get a gift or if the people selling the Ogrines do.

And again, I think the actual subscriber should get the gift. People who buy Ogrines and use them for their own accs technically are the subscribers, so we're not disagreeing here. (The thing with saving up GP is a whole different issue, and as I suggested before, it would be much nicer for everyone if all forms of subscription could save up their rewards for something bigger.)

I know this is a bit of a necro but I was gone for a couple months and the more I think about them removing GPs the more it gets under my skin.

Ala I'm sorry but you've got it backwards. People don't sell Ogrines they sell kamas. Why should the sellers of kamas be rewarded when they are not the ones putting real money up? You know I'm sure some people would consider those selling kamas via the Ogrines exchange no better than the bot kama sellers.

I know many people look down their noses at kama "buyers" but the fact is this is sanctioned by Ankama and it's those people that make free subscriptions available to the people who chose to go that route. Without them everyone would have for fork over real cash to subscribe and those who wanted to buy kamas would still do so, taking real money out of Ankamas pocket and keeping more bot kama sellers alive.

You also seem to be missing the fact that nobody buys kamas via the exchange only to sit as an F2P, those people also subscribe. Which means they are spending even MORE real money than they would had they just bought a subscription.

For me, I would buy the 47,000 Ogrines package, sub for a year and sell off the excess 11,000 O's. There was incentive to do that because I could still get a one year pet, save up the extra gift points to get something I saw as useful to me later on AND it made Ogrines available to someone on the market who maybe couldn't afford to spend real cash to buy a subscription. A win win situation. But now where is the incentive for me to list the extra Ogrines on the exchange when I don't need to buy kamas?

No in fact since Ogrines purchased with cash are good for (AmountOfOgrines/100) + 60 days, meaning 47k O's are good for more than a year, the incentive is for me to hold those O's until I'm ready to sub again. Thereby preserving my ability to "save up points" and get the gift I want instead of wasting the gift selection on something I don't want/need or giving the gift away to a kama seller.

As far as I'm concerned Ankama has this totally backwards. I know from speaking with MODs and personal experience that there was an increase in P2P bots when the Ogrine exchange first started. I've seen a drastic decrease in P2P bots since then (good work MODs!) but I'm sure there are still kama sellers using the exchange to pay for P2P. Now, they are going to reward those bots with the gift that I paid for. Explain how this makes any sense. Explain how someone getting a free subscription by selling kamas deserves to be rewarded the same as someone who pays real money for both their subscription AND someone else's.

[YesImHidingMyIdentity]

I think it was perfectly fine as it was before they removed gift points.

Before Ogrines came out, everyone had to pay for subscription and as such, everyone received a gift.
When Ogrines came out, only those who payed real money got gifts. Players that were subscribing via the Kama<>Ogrine exchange got nothing more than subscription.
With these changes, they are rewarding players that subscribe via Kama<>Ogrine exchange and not those paying real money.

In my eyes, they had it right when they released Ogrines and messed it up with these changes. Gifts should go to those who PAY.

How I think it SHOULD BE:

- Players not interested in paying real money for a game: The system allows them to indirectly fund Ankama via Ogrine<>Kama exchange, but without the perks associated with directly funding it (AKA no gifts for them - their gift is subscription without real money).
- Bots, Kama selling websites: They will already use Kama<>Ogrine exchange to subscribe and spread their bots through P2P areas. Don't give them further reasons to do this
- Players directly funding Ankama by buying Ogrines with real money: They're the ones really funding Ankama and as such deserve what other regular players get and an additional perk of getting a gift.

This is how I think it should be. And it's how it was before this change. It made sense and now it doesn't. They're giving more power to bots and less to the real funders.

This post has been edited by YesImHidingMyIdentity: 07 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

[Mad-Scientist]

This was implemented to get people who are subscribing to opt for longer subscriptions. Before this was introduced there was no reason to subscribe for longer then a week.

Edit: I want to make it clear that the pets are serving their original purpose now. Which was always to encourage people to subscribe for longer periods.

This post has been edited by Ansatsu: 07 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

[666]

Ansatsu, on 07 March 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

This was implemented to get people who are subscribing to opt for longer subscriptions. Before this was introduced there was no reason to subscribe for longer then a week.

Edit: I want to make it clear that the pets are serving their original purpose now. Which was always to encourage people to subscribe for longer periods.

So the reasoning behind the change is supposed to make me feel better about losing something I paid for?

I want to make it clear that gift points were intended to encourage people to spend more money by buying Ogrines.

I don't know if you actually read my post but I clearly demonstrated why there is no longer any incentive for me to list my excess Ogrines for sale on the exchange since not doing so allows me to continue to "save up my rewards" for a gift I really want.

Clearly Ankama is under the mistaken impression that it is the kama sellers who keep the exchange alive but if people realize as I have that the smart move is to hold onto your extra Ogrines it makes no difference how many kamas are listed for sale if there are no O's to be had. People will always be willing to give up kamas to buy subscription time, it's ridiculous to think that those people are doing something they wouldn't normally do and should be rewarded for it. In fact their data shows exactly the opposite. They put the reward in place on the Ogrine side because they felt they needed to in order to encourage people to buy them and they didn't put rewards in place on the kama seller side because they KNEW they wouldn't need to in order to get people to sell kamas.

This post has been edited by 666: 07 March 2012 - 11:54 PM

[Guybrush-Threpwood]

I agree with you 666, they are taking the incentive from ogrines buyers (i did buy like 2 times, was planning to do a third but no more since all i get is some kamas, at least before i could get some pets that worth 3mk), this is a very stupid move from ankama, which would result in ogrines prices (kamas price i mean) to get higher and higher, since lots of them will just hold thier ogrines or think twice before doing it.
and Ansatsu, i dont clearly see how it would make YOU sub for longer period, looking at your sig, u have 4 200's and 4 199's i bet they are all equiped with thier end game sets INCLUDING pets, why would you sub more than a week? you already have the pets, and i dont think you are interested in a ghast or smth to sub for 1 month, and since ogrines prices will go up, it would make you think twice before subbing for longer time.

[Magics]

if i pay £40ish to buy 47000 ogrines but because of the nature of my degree/work/placements it is inpractical to sub for 52 weeks at a time why should i receive less than somone who has payed £0 to company but simply has enough money in game to buy 36000 ogrines....

surely if i am paying money to them for a fuck ton of ogrines to sub a load of toons per week they shouldnt care if i sub for 1 year or 4x 3 months! i deserve the same rewards as anyone else paying the same ammount of money! wich for people who dont buy them with real money = exactly 0 rewards incidently....

[Tagor]

I am with you on that one. Mind you, I buy the 49k and then also sub for a year. BUT I am also not a student who has to turn every coin over ten times. Hence it seems totally wrong to me how Ankama are trying to approach this subject. Their argument is to not reward people who buy Ogrines to trade them in for kamas but rather those players that spend kamas for Ogrines to buy a sub. This is rather odd because Ankama aren't getting diddly squat from those players. Rewards SHOULD go to those who spend REAL money. There are several reasons for that, one important reason being that apparently kama farmers still sell their kamas cheaper than Ankama Ogrines. So potentially Ankama are rewarding people who spend, say, €25 on a kama seller site to get the kamas to buy Ogrines. With this Ankama are actually supporting kama sellers even more then because people might feel motivated to go that route because they are rewarded with the pets. The thought alone is sickening.

[Mad-Scientist]

The did this specifically to get people to subscribe for longer periods. Not to butt hurt people who purchase Ogrines with real money, or to hook up people who buy Ogrines with Kamas. Here is an easy solution to the situation. Ogrine sellers Sell your Ogrines for a higher price to offset for the lost pet, Ogrine buys pay extra since you're now getting a pet out of the deal.

[666]

Ansatsu, on 10 March 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

The did this specifically to get people to subscribe for longer periods. Not to butt hurt people who purchase Ogrines with real money, or to hook up people who buy Ogrines with Kamas. Here is an easy solution to the situation. Ogrine sellers Sell your Ogrines for a higher price to offset for the lost pet, Ogrine buys pay extra since you're now getting a pet out of the deal.

Again, the reasoning behind it does not make a difference to those of us who are losing something we're PAYING for. You obviously have little experience with the market if you think your suggestion is an easy solution...there will always be those with way more money than brains who will insure that prices stay lower than they should be to reflect the change.

Take a look at some of the posts around here showing just how many people have no grasp of how this all works thinking things like "the reason for the chest change is cause too many people are subbing with O's bought with K's" and other such such complete absurdness. I'm willing to bet 80% of dofus players would have no idea how to figure out exactly how much they just paid in real cash per mk on the market.